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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by marurun Tue May 10, 2022 1:17 pm

alienjesus wrote:Platformers are always a favourite, and I'm curious about some of the run n guns on the system too. I know there's a few but they always kind of blend into 1 game in my mind.


In terms of side-scrolling run and guns there's nothing that really compares to the frantic side-scrolling action of Contra or Gunstar Heroes. Data East's Bloody Wolf is good, and Horror Story is an arcade port which moves quickly and is decent. There's also a port of Jim Power which is good if you're down with that Euro feel and lots of collectible point items. There's also Veigues Tactical Gladiator, which I like in theory more than in practice. There's a complex and fast-moving game in there that's not particularly accessible to new players. I feel like for some people there's a great experience to be had. If you're more into Mega Man style stuff there's Legend of Hero Tonma, Shock Man, and the SGX Ghouls and Ghosts. Shock Man is the least of those 3 but is still fun if flawed. City Hunter has a translation patch and is more like Rolling Thunder in some ways. It's fun but has more exploration and a little less shooting. You're much more likely to find good top-down run and guns, however. Final Zone 2 and Last Alert are good games with dubbing that's so bad it's awesome: awesomely bad. Die Hard is pretty good and has a translation patch. Mystic Formula seems divisive but looks good in still shots. Haven't played it, though, so I can't speak to the in-game experience. Valkyrie no Densetsu is a good Namco arcade port that's enjoyable. The PC Engine also has a really good Gain Ground port. In the more Gauntlet direction (which is a bit less run and gun), Dungeon Explorer is awesome and Dungeon Explorer 2 is slightly less awesome but still good.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by Majors Wed May 11, 2022 10:44 am

marurun wrote:...There's also a port of Jim Power which is good if you're down with that Euro feel and lots of collectible point items.

Let's not forget Turrican is also out there. I would not recommend it, but for those that love the "euro" feel.

I also concur with the prior posts, all the mentioned games are good. In fact Mystic Formula (which for the longest time, I thought was a F-1 racing game) is the current GotM on another forum. If you like Last/Red Alert or Final Zone 2, you'll feel right at home. I do think Bloody Wolf is the better of that type of game on the PCE/TG-16 tho.

Other non-shooter rec'ds: Alien and Devils Crush, Battle Lode Runner, Bomberman 93 and 94, Cadash, Military Madness/Nectaris, Motoroader MC, Parasol Stars

For more platformers: Kato and Ken(JJ and Jeff), Momotarou Katsugeki(Vol. 32), SonSon 2, New Adventure Island, Jackie Chan and Ninja Spirit (this was already mentioned, but deserves another shout out).

A few puzzle games I like: Panic Bomber (it's so colorful!), Buster Bros/Pomping World and Zipang (Soloman's Key). Puyo is there too but it's been ported to death.

I'm a Turbografx fanboy so I'm biased. I like the golf games and Shanghai, even Victory Run on obey.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by marurun Wed May 11, 2022 12:16 pm

Majors wrote:A few puzzle games I like: Panic Bomber (it's so colorful!), Buster Bros/Pomping World and Zipang (Soloman's Key). Puyo is there too but it's been ported to death.


Puzzle games are a hidden strength of the platform. Here are the ones I love:

Buster Bros/Pomping World - Great arcade port. Pop bouncing bubbles with your harpoon gun. They are heavy bubbles, so don't get hit and die.
Parasol Stars - One of those single-screen-style Taito action-puzzlers, and with a secret final stage for the good ending. Collect elemental drops on your umbrella to stun enemies or unleash elemental attacks. Throw stunned enemies to stun or eliminate other enemies. Music is fantastic and the game moves at a pretty good clip once you get going.
Chew Man Fu/Beball - Pushing, pulling, and kicking giant colored balls around a maze to get them to their matching bases and using them to squash enemies and smash walls along the way.
Cratermaze/Doraemon: Meikyū Daisakusen - Like Bomberman and Lode Runner had a baby. Super fun. Dig holes to kill enemies while collecting all the tchotchkes.
Don Doko Don - Another Taito single-screen action-puzzler. Smack enemies with a hammer and throw them at other enemies.
Splash Lake - Hidden gem single screen platformer. You are an ostrich who can crack tiles with your beak. Crack tiles to submerge portions of the stage and all the enemies on those portions. Peck pedestals for bonus point fruit items. Unlock more levels through finding all the secrets to triple the number of stages (all unique). Music is a little cloying but the sound effects are awesome. Has Pac-Man-like "theater" amusements between level sets.

There are tons of others but there are my favorites.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by alienjesus Mon May 16, 2022 7:39 am

I've had a pretty hectic first half of the month, so I haven't posted here much yet, but I'm going to try and make up for it over the next 2 weeks!

One thing I wanted to look at today was the PC Engine hardware. It's pretty crazy how many different units, models and software formats there are on the PC Engine and Turbografx, so I'm going to do my best to clarify a bit about some of the options. It all looks pretty intimidating from the outside, but in reality there's just lots of different versions of hardware that do mostly the same things.

I'm not a super expert or anything by any means so I might get some of this wrong, but I'll do my best! I'm also not going to cover everything here as there's all sorts of niche oddities and stuff when it comes to PC Engine hardware - I'll just cover the main stuff you might see or hear about.

Playing HuCards/Turbochips:

PC Engine (original), PC-Engine Coregrafx, PC-Engine Coregrafx II:
These are all the classic little square consoles that released in Japan. They play Japanese HuCard's out of the box, but aren't compatible with US Turbochips. The original PC Engine is the off-white one, and only has RF video output. The Coregrafx is the dark grey one is the same but with Composite video output. The Coregrafx II is the mid-grey one and is mostly identical to the original CoreGarfx other than colour. The colour is designed to match the Super CD ROM2 add on.

Turbografx-16
This is the much bulkier North American version of the console. It's black with orange detailing. It plays American Turbochips but cannot read Japanese HuCards. It features Composite video output like the Coregrafx.

Turbografx (PAL):
This is a modified version of the Turbografx-16 which was released in limited quantities in PAL territories. It's essentially the US console modified for 50hz output and higher mains voltage. There were no 'PAL' games released - this unit is compatible with North American Turbochips. As the games aren't optimised, they all run about 17% slower than they should, which makes this the worst option for playing the games. I'm unclear if this is compatible with the CD add-on.

Turbo Express/PC Engine GT:
This is the handheld version of the console. The naming is different in each region but unlike the home console the designs are basically the same besides branding from what I can tell. This system plays the same HuCards or Turbochips as the home console - although still region dependent which! Not compatible with CD add ons for obvious reasons. Also like many handhelds of the time, it's an absolute battery vampire.

Playing CD games:

PC Engine CD-Rom^2:
This add-on connects to Japanese PC Engine consoles to allow them to play CD games. I've heard it's compatible with the US system too but not 100% confident on that. The setup in Japan comes with a briefcase like dock which you set both the CD rom and any classic PC Engine variety (PC Engine/CoreGrafx/Coregrafx II) inside. You need a system card plugged into the PC Engine hucard slot for it to work - the system card determines what type of CD-ROM games it supports, this is explained further down in this post! CDs are region free on PC Engine and Turbografx, so either Japanese or North American games should work.

Turbografx CD:
This is essentially the American version of the CD ROM2 unit. It has a nicer form factor but still requires system cards to function. It will play games of any region, but the system card itself will need to be American as they use the HuCard slot.

PC Engine Super CD ROM^2:
This is a later CD-Rom attachment with a different form factor - it connects onto the back fo the PC Engine consoles. It also includes more onboard memory and has a 'Super CD Rom' BIOS and memory basically built in, so you don't need a system card unless you want to play Arcade CD Rom games.

PC Engine Duo: This essentially is a combined PC Engine & CD ROM2 attachment in one unit, which results in a nicer form factor overall. It has the system card 3.0 support like the Super CD-Rom2 unit, so it only requires a system card for Arcade CD Rom games. It supports Japanese HuCards and CDs from any region, but not American Turbochips.

TurboDuo:
Basically the US version of the PC Engine Duo. Comes with Super CD compatibility and plays all region CDs, but only US turbochips. Because of this, if you want to play the handful or Arcade CD games you'll need to mod it or use a region adapter, as the Arcade system card was a Japan exclusive.

PC Engine Duo R:
As far as I can tell, this is essentially a PC Engine Duo but with a new form factor and colouring. I've heard the hardware is more reliable than the original model though!

PC Engine Duo RX:
Essentially the same as the PC Engine Duo R, but comes with a 6 button controller included rather than the classic 2 button.

Other systems of note:

SuperGrafx:
This was a failed piece of new hardware that didn't sell very well and is thus rare and expensive. It's fully compatible with the Turbografx library and CD add-ons (although you may need an adapter for some due to form factor) but also some exclusive Supergrafx HuCards. There's only a handful of these and they cost a small fortune nowadays, so it's not really worth it.

PC Engine Mini/Coregrafx Mini/Turbografx Mini:
This was a mini console that Konami released a few years back which included a range of built in PC Engine and Turbografx titles - you get both English and Japanese releases on all versions of the hardware, although there are a few small differences. The PC Engine Mini was released in Japan and is based on the original hardware, the Turbografx Mini was released in America based on the US design, and Europe rather oddly got the CoreGrafx Mini with the darker colouring. The games are identical between regions with the following differences: Japan recieved text heavy RPG Tengai Makyō II: Manji Maru, and dating sim Tokimeki Memorial on their unit, plus the Japanese version of Splatterhouse. America and Europe instead got the shmup Salamander and the American version of Splatterhouse instead, resulting in 1 less game overall. Otherwise the line up is identical.


Media formats:

I guess I should talk a bit about the various media formats for the system too, seeing how I mentioned them above:

HuCards: These are the Japanese card format which work on all Japanese PC Engines. They won't work on American without modding the unit or using a cartridge adapter.

Turbochips: This the American version of above. The form factor is identical, but they are region locked and will only work on the American systems without mods or adapters.

CD ROM^2: This is the original CD format for the turbografx. These will work on all CD units and are region free. For systems without built in Super CD support, you'll need any system card to run these.

Super CD ROM^2: This is an upgraded CD Rom format which can make use of higher memory to run more impressive games. They're region free again, and require system card 3.0 on units without Super CD functionality built in.

Arcade CD ROM: This is the final CD format for PC Engine and was only released in Japan. It requires an Arcade system card to be plugged in to run as they require lots of extra RAM - no hardware had this built in. There are different arcade cards depending which hardware you have though, so be sure to get the right one. Only a small handful of Arcade CD Roms exist and many are quite pricy so this isn't necessarily an essential purchase.

Supergrafx HuCard: These are just HuCards which only work on Supergrafx. Based on their ludicrous prices you're unlikely to buy one by accident so probably best to forget about these :lol:

System Cards:

You'll need these to play CD games, depending on which hardware you're using. This is summary of the msot relevant ones:

    System card 1.0: This PC Engine card allows you to play CD ROM2 games on hardware without the support built in (read: the original CD Rom attachment)
    Sytem card 3.0: This is what you need to play Super CD-ROM2 games if you have the original PC Engine CD ROM unit. It's backwards compatible with original CD ROM2 games too.
    Arcade card Duo:Regardless which CD hardware you're using, you'll need an Arcade card to run Arcade CD ROM games. The Arcade Card Duo only works in units which already have built in System card 3.0 support, such as the PC Engine Duo, as it utilises the memory already on that hardware. It supports CD ROM2 and Super CD Rom2 too.
    Arcade card Pro: This Arcade card is what you'll need to run Arcade CD-ROMs on CD units without Super CD-ROM support built in. It contains all the additional RAM on the cartridge but is rarer and pricer as a result. It supports CD ROM2 and Super CD Rom2 too.
    Turbografx CD System card: This came with the Turbografx CD attachment in the US and allows support for original CD ROM2 games.
    Turbografx Super System card:
This is the US version of the System card 3.0 and adds support for Super CD ROM2 games. As with all of these cards, it will allow older CD-ROM2 games to run still as well.



*phew*, that was a long ass post to just try and cover the basics of PC Engine hardware. Has any other console hardware out there ever been as complex to figure out and explain? I can't think of one :lol:

Maybe I should put together a graphic at some point to illustrate this better!
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by boogiepop Mon May 16, 2022 8:51 am

Well, I think I'll join in on all this Together Retro fun, if I may. :)

I've had relatively little exposure to the PC Engine and would definitely like to fix that. I mean, I have a good idea of what's in the library but just haven't actually played all that much. Those that I have include Soldier Blade, Super Star Soldier, Air Zonk, Bomberman '94, Detana TwinBee, and Parasol Stars, among others. What I keep coming back to time and again, though, is Devil Crash. Man, oh man, do I love that game. It's become one of my all time fave's.

I'm quite curious about the must-know-Japanese exclusives, though, like the Vasteels and Schwarzchilds. Does anyone have any experience with those?

Oh, and thank you alienjesus for posting all that about the different formats. It'll surely help at some point in clearing up some confusing issue.

Well, anyway, I've been meaning to get to Valkyrie Densetsu and see it's a well-regarded title here. Maybe I'll start there.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by marurun Mon May 16, 2022 10:03 am

I suggested some edits and corrections in Slack. Suffice it to say, the reason it's as complex as it is is that it's really the only console that's actually had successful add-ons. Some have noted that the Sega CD had similar unit sales, but it definitely didn't have the same amount of software for the add-on. The PC Engine had early success AND developer commitment to the CD format and by 1991 HuCard sales were declining in favor of CD sales. And it was the success of the CD format that required those system cards.

While the original CD format was incredibly novel for the time, the relatively small CD RAM cache (only .5 MEGA POWER) was pretty puny. A CD could holds lots of data, but you could only make a tiny portion of it available to the system on-demand without a long loading break. Being able to lean on the CD for music and the ADPCM chip (which had it's own .5 MEGA POWER cache) for digitally sampled sound effects really helped, but making impressive CD games still required good coding to squeeze all the graphics and code into the small cache. (The CD RAM cache was in the CD base units, but the BIOS wasn't which is why the TG-CD and the PCD-CD always required a System Card, something that was remedied with the Super CD-ROM and Duo hardware units.)

With ROM cartridge and HuCard sizes growing the Super CD format was virtually required to keep up. The Super System Card had additional RAM right on the HuCard and expanded the CD cache to 2 MEGA POWER. That was much more reasonable. A given level or section of the game between loading breaks could store the equivalent of a 2 Mib ROM cartridge and still capitalize on "free" sampled sound effects and Red Book audio. Fighters and beat 'em ups still ended up a bit starved (those were typically the largest cartridges on consoles barring tentpole RPGs), but RPGs, puzzlers, and shooters had more than enough room to stretch their legs.

And so it was near the end of the system's life that the Arcade Card was released as a last gasp to keep the die-hards on-board a bit longer. Beat 'em ups had lost a little of their shine but fighters were still going strong, and those typically required lots of data. The Arcade Card's on-board memory increased that CD RAM cache once again to a total of 18 MEGA POWER. That meant a single CD load could pull enough data to fill all but the very largest SNES or Genesis cartridges. That's why the SNK Neo Geo fighter ports on the PC Engine were the best of the 16-bit generation: they had enough memory to do the job right. The cartridge fighters of the time could access almost any of the data on the cartridge on-demand, but the cartridge size was also the hard data limit. You had to squeeze all your sound, music, and graphics for fighters and backgrounds into that entire cartridge. The Neo Geo ports on Arcade CD could dedicate up to 18 MEGA POWER to just two fighters and the background and I think it shows.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by alienjesus Thu May 26, 2022 3:58 am

Today I thought I'd mention Chris Bucci (Spida1a)'s channel on Youtube. He has a long run series, recently completed, where he covered every US Turbografx release as well as a few PC engine titles. They're really great and you can tell he has a lot of passion for the system:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZq3_ ... nsiPiM7MiQ

Turboviews is probably the channel that convinced me that the Turbografx library had enough to offer that it was worth diving in despite the expense. I ended up going the PC Engine route for the comparatively low cost and broader library.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by Nemoide Tue May 31, 2022 2:50 pm

The month's about over but I'll chime in just to say that I always thought the Turbografx was cool but would get intimidated by the hardware variations and couldn't justify the price of the console and games.
I'll probably get the Analogue Duo when that comes out since I won't have to worry about getting failing hardware repaired. Or at least the Analogue Pocket hucard adapter.

I got the Turbografx mini but haven't really spent much time with it. I like the idea of playing 8-bit-style games with 16-bit graphics though and that seems to be what the TG-16 provides. And the CD games on the console seem more in line with what a CD-based console should be aiming for rather than the FMV-glutted Sega CD library (although I do love the Sega CD).
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by Ziggy587 Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:49 pm

I've been really busy and haven't posted much in this thread, but I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts here. I even snuck in a little TG16 time. I'm not sure why, but I've never played Gradius on the TG16 (or rather, the PCE since it wasn't released outside of Japan). It's actually a decent port.
I'm parting with some duplicate Blu-Ray and DVD movies. Check out this thread if interested.
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Re: Console of the Month (May 2022) - Turbografx/PC Engine

by prfsnl_gmr Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:54 pm

Great thread guys. I didn’t post much because I never owned a TG16. I really enjoyed reading everyone’s posts, though!
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