Any cryptocurrency users here?

[PretentiousHipster]

Big problems arise from a de-regulated market. For example. Crime? It's impossible to track. I'm not talking about the black market, or rather actual theft, called rug-pulling. You can see a source here: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/1 ... ainalysis/

There is this great one news source too: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

I am against money in general though, and would do a sort of wage-voucher system of something that cannot be hoarded, and would vanish upon its requisition (with identification to stop theft), but I digress. Plus it may show my bias lol

EDIT: You could argue that it's a negative sum game, as per the points mentioned before so that volatile market is not there yet, until people start withdrawing it in spades. It's only doing well now that most people are doing is investing in it. If it becomes the norm currency, that's when the volatile market will start.

Plus you could also include its environmental impact, and being responsible for GPU shortages.

[fuctfuct]

The two videos I posted earlier address everything you just said.

https://youtu.be/d_34YjXAU5Y

https://youtu.be/Vuz44fwkEz0

Well worth the time. Took my father a week to watch them and now he never has to ask dumb questions. And also owns Bitcoin.

(Most crypto are easier to track than dollars BTW)

[PretentiousHipster]

I'll slowly start seeing them tomorrow and address some of their points.

Some advice though, when debating, don't link almost 4 hours worth of content. There's even a term for it called gish galloping, or can also call it the bullshit asymmetry principle. Telling us to take the time to see 4 hours of content without a summary done in your part, and for us to take the effort to refute them.

I am very fringe with my politics, reading tons of books in philosophical, social, and economics issues, and you don't see me saying "read this 1500 page economics book to see all my points".

[Limewater]

I am not politically or ethically against crypto currencies, but I am personally uncomfortable with "investing" in one.
Even prior to the rise of cryptocurrencies, I have never been comfortable with "investing" in currencies. It's always speculative, and it's always pure capital gains. I am not opposed to capital gains -- I love money and have made plenty through capital gains.
But I would much rather invest in something that I know is actually generating a product and providing a good or service to the world.

That's not to sell cryptocurrencies short. I have a Venezuelan 500-Bolivar note on my desk. Bitcoin provided a lot of Venezuelans a way to protect themselves at least a little bit from hyperinflation. I like that it exists. But I don't like the idea of buying it in the hopes that later someone will want it more than I did and will be willing to pay more for it than I did. That doesn't add value to the world in any meaningful way that I can see.

Again, I am not trying to make a bit political or ethical point. I am just not personally comfortable with it.

[fuctfuct]

I'll slowly start seeing them tomorrow and address some of their points.

Some advice though, when debating, don't link almost 4 hours worth of content. There's even a term for it called gish galloping, or can also call it the bullshit asymmetry principle. Telling us to take the time to see 4 hours of content without a summary done in your part, and for us to take the effort to refute them.

I am very fringe with my politics, reading tons of books in philosophical, social, and economics issues, and you don't see me saying "read this 1500 page economics book to see all my points".

I'm not debating. I'm sharing the information and my experiences. Casual conversations are not debates. I dont care what you think of the videos. I just think everyone here needs to hear them. I also would not use you recommending me a book to read during a conversation (the equivalent to my video recommendation) as an opportunity to mock you, or as an attempt to assert intellectual dominance.

I am also very fringe in my politics. Being a Voluntaryist. And i gather the polar opposite to yours.

EDIT: At the risk of committing the ultimate sin of bullshit asymmetry principle.. I finally got through this excellent video. I'm going to share it here. Watch it or do not watch. Agree or disagree. Do what you want with it.

https://youtu.be/Gbr_Uz_NdZ4

Sorry, no impossible to type summary of a 1.6 hour video provided. No need for any of you to put in any effort to refute any of the the points made, if you don't want to.


The dollar part of this meme is all but guaranteed. We shall see with BTC

[RCBH928]

I see what fuctfuct is saying, invest some money if lost no issue if it goes up you will make big gains. Can't go against that. if I have a chance to turn $20K into $500K why not?

That being said I think the others are criticising the system itself for being a fiat replacement. People behind the Bitcoin project claiming this is basically the new US dollar. I do not trust it enough personally. I might have no issue having my whole life savings in US dollars but I am very skeptical to keep the same amount in Bitcoin. Also I see most people say they bought bitcoin in $X and sold it for a higher $X which is basically a pyramid scheme. But who is buying bitcoin for its real purpose, as an alternative to US dollar? to store his life savings in it?

I see that bitcoin will never replace the dollar unless a time comes where businesses or people accept only Bitcoin as a means of exchange kind of like how you pay your ISP in USD, your USA ISP will not accept Korean Won or Egyptian pounds as a form of payment.

Personally I am not interested to store in value in Bitcoin, use it as a pump and dumb? maybe but I am interested in crypto currency as a service to avoid the conventional monetary system. I had a lot of tough time trying to send and receive money via this method. I like to think of cryto currency as the new "PayPal".

[fuctfuct]

I have just over 19k in my savings account. What that can buy (purchasing power) in 5 years will be much less than it can buy today. That is a huge problem.

I don't know what to do with it. My heart tells me to buy BTC with it. But I won't. Buy more Tesla? Iduno.... It will probably just sit there and loose purchasing power every single day :/

[prfsnl_gmr]

I have just over 19k in my savings account. What that can buy (purchasing power) in 5 years will be much less than it can buy today. That is a huge problem.

Maybe not. It depends on what you want to buy. The price of something else going down is equivalent to the value of your cash going up. (So, for example, the price of Bitcoin falling relative to the dollar is, basically, the same thing as the value of the dollar rising relative to Bitcoin.) Over time, currency tends to lose value in comparison to a broad array of commodities/goods. This is inflation, and some inflation is necessary for a healthy economy. (The opposite, deflation, is really, really, really bad. We’ve only really seen that in the U.S. between 1930 and 1933, and between 2007 and 2008. As you may recall, neither were particular great periods for the economy!) Still, even with healthy inflation, your cash might still gain value relative to some commodities/goods. (For example, the dollar has vastly outperformed CRT televisions and cassette tapes over the last 20 years! Interestingly, cash has also outperformed silver over the last 10 years.) In short, holding cash is preferable to investing it into something that loses value relative to cash, but it is inferior, obviously, to investing in something that gains value relative to it.

You should keep enough liquid assets to cover your expenses for six months. With the rest, and if you’re concerned about it losing value relative to other commodities, you could invest in a diversified portfolio of domestic and international stocks and bonds. For example, you could invest 50% in domestic stocks, 20% in domestic bonds, 10% in foreign stocks, 10% in foreign bonds, and 10 in real estate investment trusts (or some other commodity). You could manage this yourself, or you could invest into some low fee index funds. A diversified portfolio like this will likely gain value relative to the dollar over time, and it hedges against all sorts of risks.

I hope that helps!

[Golgo 14]

I am interested in crypto currency as a service to avoid the conventional monetary system. I had a lot of tough time trying to send and receive money via this method. I like to think of cryto currency as the new "PayPal".

Since this is your only interest, I think you can sleep on crypto for a good while. At this point it isn't known for its ease of use and user friendly interfaces.

[fuctfuct]

I have just over 19k in my savings account. What that can buy (purchasing power) in 5 years will be much less than it can buy today. That is a huge problem.

Maybe not. It depends on what you want to buy. The price of something else going down is equivalent to the value of your cash going up. (So, for example, the price of Bitcoin falling relative to the dollar is, basically, the same thing as the value of the dollar rising relative to Bitcoin.) Over time, currency tends to lose value in comparison to a broad array of commodities/goods. This is inflation, and some inflation is necessary for a healthy economy. (The opposite, deflation, is really, really, really bad. We’ve only really seen that in the U.S. between 1930 and 1933, and between 2007 and 2008. As you may recall, neither were particular great periods for the economy!) Still, even with healthy inflation, your cash might still gain value relative to some commodities/goods. (For example, the dollar has vastly outperformed CRT televisions and cassette tapes over the last 20 years! Interestingly, cash has also outperformed silver over the last 10 years.) In short, holding cash is preferable to investing it into something that loses value relative to cash, but it is inferior, obviously, to investing in something that gains value relative to it.

You should keep enough liquid assets to cover your expenses for six months. With the rest, and if you’re concerned about it losing value relative to other commodities, you could invest in a diversified portfolio of domestic and international stocks and bonds. For example, you could invest 50% in domestic stocks, 20% in domestic bonds, 10% in foreign stocks, 10% in foreign bonds, and 10 in real estate investment trusts (or some other commodity). You could manage this yourself, or you could invest into some low fee index funds. A diversified portfolio like this will likely gain value relative to the dollar over time, and it hedges against all sorts of risks.

I hope that helps!

Thank you for taking the time to type that. While I disagree with just about everything you said in the first paragraph, I still appreciate it. Money, investing and wealth is changing from what it's been for many decades, IMO. To be more clear.. That 19k is play money. I was just using it to make a point. Groceries, and most goods, are way up compared to 5 years ago. That is going to get much worse in the next 5. That 19k will not be able to buy the same amount of things it does today. That is NOT a good thing.

I have already done quite a lot of everything you recommended. Crypto has done an order magnitude better than all of it... I believe it will continue to do so.. but not enough to buy 19k worth, lol. Maybe ill do 9.

EDIT: Just got a payment from mining.

If you have a relatively modern GPU it is a great, cheap, way to get some crypto. A few bucks a day will be worth a nice chunk if/when BTC goes where i might go 10-15 years from today

Long story why i get paid in BCH