Switch Discussion Thread

[Ziggy]

So there was the "Return to Arkham" remaster of the first two games, which improved the visuals, but I've read that this Switch collection is using the graphics/assets of the original releases. Which, I don't care per se. I'm not convinced the redone visuals of the remasters are improvements anyway. I've also read that the Switch physical version will only contain Asylum. City and Knights will have to be downloaded from the eShop.

[Reprise]

Metal Gear Solid collection - Kinda cool to see this coming to the Switch. But just the PS1 version of MGS? No Twin Snakes?

When they showed the trailer I seriously thought that Twin Snakes was going to be announced to be on there. I was kinda disappointed when it wasn't to be honest

Then it was revealed that the physical cartridge is just going to be a 2gb cart that requires a 30 or 40gb download or something, so I'll pass I think. I don't get how this release is better than the last HD release, other than MGS1 now being there.

I'm excited for the Super Mario RPG remake. It's cool to now have every Pikmin game on Switch too. I'll definitely pick up the physical collection of 1 and 2 sometime.

[marurun]

Metal Gear Solid collection - Kinda cool to see this coming to the Switch. But just the PS1 version of MGS? No Twin Snakes?

Then it was revealed that the physical cartridge is just going to be a 2gb cart that requires a 30 or 40gb download or something, so I'll pass I think. I don't get how this release is better than the last HD release, other than MGS1 now being there.

At that point I don't even know why they are bothering to pay to manufacture a cartridge at all. Maybe Nintendo won't let them put a DL voucher in a case. I really do think Nintendo needs to draft rules that physical releases need to have all or most of the content on the cartridge, however.

[Ziggy]

I'm too lazy to Google and see if the Switch cards are using any existing tech. But since SD cards can now be many, many Gigabytes, I'm assuming a Switch card can be too. So why not fit all of the games onto the single card? Is that too expensive? Is bandwidth now cheap enough that people can download many Gigabytes and that's cheaper than flash memory?

I noted a few posts ago, the Arkham trilogy is similar. Only the first game, Asylum, is on the cart. The other two games need to be downloaded.

I don't really care, in principle. But I'm always thinking about a possible future where the servers to download these games are no longer available. Like, let's say many years from now my Switch dies. I pick up a used Switch on the used market, and I plug all of my cards in and play every game I bought offline without issue... Except til now, when MGS and Arkham collection aren't entirely included on the card.

Has this happen before with any Switch games? These are the first that I'm aware of.

But yeah, it would have been REALLY cool to see Twin Snakes on the collection in addition to the PS1 original. But they're calling this collection "Volume 1." So perhaps they're saving Twin Snakes for a Volume 2, along with the PSP games and some other crap that no one wants. Basically, use Twin Snakes as a Volume 2 seller.

I have the MGS 2 and 3 HD remasters on the PS3, which I haven't even played yet. So I'm not sure how eager I am to get this Volume 1 collection. I don't really care about the other games in Volume 1 since there's so many other ways I can already play them. Twin Snakes would have made it a must-buy for me though. I would definitely like to play an HD remaster of that game.

[MrPopo]

Is bandwidth now cheap enough that people can download many Gigabytes and that's cheaper than flash memory?

If downloading gigs is feasible, that is far cheaper than flash memory on the consumer end. And on the production end having gigs in a CDN is cheaper than the flash memory. The calculus is actually "do enough people have access to broadband?" and given the popularity of streaming platforms I think the answer is a resounding yes.

But I'm always thinking about a possible future where the servers to download these games are no longer available.

And that's not a thing most people think of. On the company side, they would rather put it out again in the future and have you pay again rather than grab it from your collection or buying it off a guy on craigslist (is that still a thing?) And Gamestop taught us that the average consumer treats games as disposables that can be tossed aside once you're no longer engaging with it.

[marurun]

Fortunately they haven’t decided to lock the downloadables to an individual user.

[Reprise]

The calculus is actually "do enough people have access to broadband?" and given the popularity of streaming platforms I think the answer is a resounding yes.

To be fair though, people don't actually need particularly fast broadband to cope with streaming, particularly if you're only dealing with 1080p. A lot of people are still stuck on slow enough internet though that can mean downloading a 40gb game can be a real pain in the ass and take an exhausting amount of time. My parents and brother's town, for example, are still stuck on ridiculously slow internet. I just upgraded to full fibre a few months back and get around 160mbps now, but even before I upgraded I was getting 40mbps on standard broadband. Meanwhile, 10 miles away where my parents and brother live, they're stuck on a pathetic 6-10mbps. They can cope with streaming, just about, but I have watched them trying to download patches at Christmas when I have bought my brother a Switch game and it's honestly painful to watch.

They still have a long way to get everyone in the world onto decent broadband speeds.

The other issue is that unlike the PS5 (and I presume Series X? I don't know, I don't have one), the Switch doesn't have much internal storage and upgrading is expensive (if you're going to get at least a 1TB SD card).

That said, it's pretty clear this is the direction we're going in and it won't be long until everyone is moved onto full fibre and physical video games become a thing of the past.

I noted a few posts ago, the Arkham trilogy is similar. Only the first game, Asylum, is on the cart. The other two games need to be downloaded.

That's generally considered the least controversial way to handle games that are either too large to fit on a cartridge or simply the developers don't want to eat into their profits by using a larger capacity cartridge. You get an entire game on the cartridge, at least, whereas with the MGS Collection you essentially get nothing. There's 2GB of data, but you can't play anything or use it, you have to download the update if you want to play any of the games.

Has this happen before with any Switch games? These are the first that I'm aware of.

It has been happening for years and is quite controversial in the Switch community. People usually give really large games a pass, it is the cases where publishers essentially opt for one of the smallest cartridge sizes available (usually a 1GB or 2GB one), simply to save as much money as possible, and then force you to download the rest of the data, even if the game isn't particularly storage heavy. It essentially makes the cartridge pointless. I think the Mega Man collections did it and one of them was only 6GB in size. a 8GB cartridge doesn't cost much to produce, but they went with a 1GB one anyways and forced you to download 5 gigabytes of data. Yet there are examples of 32GB cartridges, like The Witcher 3 and Dragon Quest Builders 2, that are complete and don't force the player to download any extra data just to play the game.

I think the LA Noire remaster and Doom were the first two examples, so it has been going on since not long after the Switch released.

To be fair, this isn't unique to Switch though. I bought Street Fighter 6 on PS5 and single player content like the World Tour mode and Arcade modes weren't on the disc and had to be downloaded separately. And that's a blu-ray disc, which is higher capacity and cheaper to produce than a Switch cartridge.

Edit:

Fortunately they haven’t decided to lock the downloadables to an individual user.

Other than the odd few cases where they go with a download code instead of forcing a patch with the rest of the data. Sonic Origins Plus did that for some weird reason with the "plus" content. I guess because Sega hopes a large number of second hand copies that end up getting circulated gets them some extra income from people wanting to buy the "plus" content, but it's weird because Sonic Mania Plus had it all on the cartridge/disc.

[MrPopo]

They still have a long way to get everyone in the world onto decent broadband speeds.

Which was my point. It's not about everyone. It's about enough people.

Also, the phrase "pathetic 10 Mbps" makes me want to start hitting you with my old man stick.

[Reprise]

Also, the phrase "pathetic 10 Mbps" makes me want to start hitting you with my old man stick.

Haha why? I grew up on dial up. Even the Dreamcast modems here in Europe were 33.6kbps, when North Americans got a 56k modem. 10mbps now though is really slow (and that's their top speed, it's usually around 6 or 7). It would take around 10 hours to download that 40ishgb patch for MGS.

[Raging Justice]

I really feel like physical collecting in the modern era is largely not worth it. I've gotten used to getting my games digital. People stubbornly refuse to admit it but physical is dead and has been for some time. When 90% of game releases require you to download DLC, patches, or updates then PHYSICAL IS DEAD. One way or another you're being forced to download digital content whether you buy physical or not.

I do love collecting physical media though, but I feel like I'm only getting my money's worth when I collect retro games from an era where you actually got entire games on physical media. For modern games, I've made up my mind to just wait until the digital version goes on sale and then I buy that. I don't want to pay full price for digital only games and I don't want to pay anything at all for a fake physical release that doesn't have all of the content on it.

For new releases, I actually am more interested in buying movies where I can get all content on disc, versus a modern video game where I only get some content on disc. I'll go buy a John Wick blu ray and be happy that I can pop that disc in and watch the movie without an internet connection and without having to download anything just to watch the damn movie.