The Wrestling Thread

[Raging Justice]

Lucha underground had moments with nice emotional pay offs. Like, that's what I feel like I'm really missing from WWE and AEW right now. Emotional payoffs are the result of good story telling.

LU had three misfits who hated each other practically fighting for their lives in a trios title tournament rigged by the owner of the promotion who was trying to destroy them. They eventually banded together after one of them injured her leg, and after another of the three nearly killed himself trying to protect her...and in the end they did it. They won. It was awesome.

LU had a complex love triangle revolving around two men who loved this woman but hated each other. Two mythic men who embodied the forces of light and darkness forever fighting each other with this mysterious, witch-like woman pulling both of their strings and manipulating them to her own ends. Epic, dramatic stuff

LU had a woman get kidnapped, tortured...possibly even sexually abused by a brother/sister duo, leading to her having to face her fears and reclaim her power by fighting one of her abusers in a violent match where she would ultimately make her abuser fear HER. Great stuff

We had a Kill Bill inspired woman whose quest for revenge was interrupted by a psychotic "skeleton ninja" called Pentagon who broke her arm, leading to her recruiting a group of assassins to exact revenge on a NEW target. This brought us to an epic, anime-like gauntlet match where she would not only exact her revenge, but also find some common ground with an old rival who had his own beef with Pentagon

Like, i honestly think Lucha Underground spoiled me. Like that kind of story telling is beyond typical pro wrestling. I feel like this was the problem with Bray Wyatt. At times he was trying to do brilliant stuff that was maybe beyond the scope of pro wrestling. He felt at times BIGGER than wrestling and BIGGER than WWE. Bray Wyatt tried to bring real horror to pro wrestling

[Reprise]

The problem I feel with WWE and AEW is that professional wrestling seems to just have one way of writing and laying out stories and everything feels very derivative. They never seem to think outside the box and do something really unique. It always make me laugh when one of the companies (usually WWE to be honest) does something really passé and loads of fans online post "THIS IS STORYTELLING".

Lucha Underground did that though. They really were unique with the way they told stories and how they approached them. They really blended a cinematic presentation with dramatic soap opera storylines and great wrestling.

Lucha Underground's availability was always a problem. Many people didn't have a way to see it (the network it aired on is dead now too). Even now watching it can be a pain. Someone had links to where you could watch all four seasons on reddit just two months ago and it seems to have been taken down now. It's worth watching all four seasons if you find a way. There were some big missteps they made with the booking and creative, but still plenty of great stuff worth seeing.

Somewhere I have an external harddrive with all of season 1 and either all of season 2 or at least part of downloaded. I can't remember if I ever managed to download any of season 3, but I know I didn't watch any. I am sure I will find them all somewhere at some point.

[Raging Justice]

While their story telling isn't as complex as Lucha Underground, Stardom occasionally manages to create those emotional moments, and I say that as someone who only very casually follows their product. The girls emote very well, which is good at drawing emotion out of viewers. They value their kayfabe and some of those girls eat, sleep, live and breathe their kayfabe characters. Like I have seen interviews with Tam Nakano where every single question is answered completely in kayfabe. Tam Nakano is not a persona, it's who she is...or at least that's what she wants us to believe.

Like there were times in the last year or so where I watched a big match on a big show and actually did have an emotional reaction to what I was seeing. I think one of the nice things about an all female promotion is that they are not bothered by showing tears and getting emotional and it makes some moments just feel more important. Like they will lose it and let the tears flow when someone wins a title or when two rivals have some big match to end their feud. It's kind of a natural human reaction when you see someone cry or get emotional it stirs the emotions within yourself.

One of my favorite moments was a White Belt match between Tam Nakano and Saya Kamitani. Supposedly, Tam was something of a mentor to Saya. When the match ended with Tam losing, both girls were bawling, and Tam took her title, knelt down, and put it around Saya's waist. That really got to me. It was a beautiful moment. Some time later, Saya would lose her title to Mina Shirkawa (also a former student to Tam, but now a fierce rival to Tam). Saya followed Tam's footsteps before her, and knelt down and put the title around Mina's waist. Of course, both girls were crying.

This was also the culmination of an accidental story line where Saya had legitimately injured Mina Shirakawa in a freak accident with her finisher. After months of inaction, a vengeful Mina returned to Stardom and challenged Saya for that title. Up until this match, Saya had not been using her finisher in any of her other matches. Throughout this match, Saya was pushed to the point of wanting to use it, but she was nervous and afraid to do it until very late in the match and that may have ultimately cost her the victory. I'd like to think that the emotional display of the two women post match showed that any resentment Mina had towards Saya had been washed away. I love that they took a real life injury and turned it into beautiful story telling. Stardom loves their kayfabe. Ironically, they are telling a somewhat similar story right now in AEW with Willow and Mercedes, though doing it much less effectively.

I love stuff like that. I love when Swerve lost the triple threat title match with Hangman and Samoa Joe and there was that shot of his face where the guy looked like someone had just shot his dog. That's the kind of drama that pulls you in and makes you anticipate the day when he gets the title, which he eventually did.

[Raging Justice]

Note to Tony Kahn:

Fucking sign this man as soon as he becomes available. He is one of the best in ring talents I've seen in the past year and a half and has had a long list of bangers with a large variety of opponents in Japan, TNA, and the indies, including one or two people who are currently signed with AEW like Konosuke Takeshita and I think Jon Moxley. The guy's a workhorse, traveling all over the place having matches in different promotions. He has one of best finishers today. From everything I have heard, Speedball is not the kind of guy who is going to create backstage drama. The only thing he is lacking is exposure. Don't let WWE snatch him up.

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/impact-w ... -wrestling




Frankly, they should sign his fiancé Veda Scott too. She's amazing on commentary and would have fun riffing off of Excalibur or Tazz or providing color commentary for straight man commentators like Schiavone and Jim Ross. It would be refreshing to have a woman on commentary too. WWE tried once with Beth Phoenix but she wasn't that good

[Raging Justice]

It's getting obvious that everyone sees more money in Willow Nightingale right now than they do Toni Storm:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stardomjoshi/c ... or_willow/

https://twitter.com/willowwrestles/stat ... 9625420853

Christ, Willow's got the best women in the business setting their sights on her

Here's some of Mike Bailey's awesome matches, this first one is him vs Ospreay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5VcdTAvfL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50rLV2RFSlE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzv4FIZw-ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgMOGKVfrBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XotF8yqMbhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIuO1n_o5CM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZhmtRyTRCg

Some highlights of one of his matches with Takeshita:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImANjXhPW1w

Last but not least, this 20 star classic!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qTYqaXcEE4

We need this man in AEW! If he was having matches with Ospreay or Okada or Jesus, BRYAN FREAKING DANIELSON, it'd blow AEW fan's minds

[Reprise]

Note to Tony Kahn:

Fucking sign this man as soon as he becomes available. He is one of the best in ring talents I've seen in the past year and a half and has had a long list of bangers with a large variety of opponents in Japan, TNA, and the indies

Oh yeah, Mike Bailey is awesome! He would be a great signing for AEW.

Speaking of AEW, they have a new action figure line coming out soon. Check it out below. It's weird how Punk (and similar individuals) says AEW isn't a real business and all they care about is match ratings etc. It really doesn't make sense when you consider that they release merchandise, action figures and toys, DVDs and now Blu Rays, a brand new video game that just had more DLC released yesterday and they keep making attempts to expand and target international audiences (See Wembley in the UK).

[Raging Justice]

This popped up on my youtube, and it's not the only video I've seen like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV20bL5uL7c

Yeah, Cody Rhodes sucks.

[Raging Justice]

That Jeff Hardy figure looks pretty good

[Reprise]

Good to hear:

The early days of All Elite Wrestling saw the company heralded for its approach to long-term storytelling, with the rise of Hangman Adam Page regarded by many as one of the greatest storylines of the past decade.

It seems as though AEW are trying to revert to more long-term storytelling going forward, with a report from Fightful Select suggesting that AEW have put ‘solid plans’ in place for top programmes throughout much of 2024, save for any disruptions due to injury.

~Cultaholic

[Raging Justice]

You know I think AEW should lean into the, "Where the best wrestle" thing. Like we should start hearing it said more and more on their shows. I also think they should have random video packages on every episode of Dynamite, Rampage, and Collision focusing on one wrestler and going over their careers and pointing out incredible matches and accomplishments that they've had with a few clips and highlights being shown. Also show any type of press or social media reactions that they've gotten. I remember WWE used to have random video packages during some of their pay per views that were basically just a showcase for one talent and letting the casual viewer know why that person is fucking awesome. AEW could do a variation of that but with slightly more of a focus on the talent's matches and wrestling ability unlike WWE's more "sports entertainment" focused video packages.

I think AEW should start taking pride in their international and indie flavor as well, we do see more of the wrestling world's talent both indie and global in AEW than we do in WWE and AEW doesn't take enough advantage of that. For example, has there ever been a video package on Mina Shirakawa? She just starts showing up in AEW with little fanfare. We should have had something like this but obviously longer, more elaborate, and more detailed, going over her character and history a bit and it should have been narrated by someone like Excalibur:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-7-ESttAho4

Or even better, you could have had Maria May narrating. She'd make it a bit more fun and colorful, and in the process the audience would also learn of the connection between the two of them.

My ideal vision of AEW is a crossroads between the more sports-like presentation of promotions like NJPW with a little bit of the sports entertainment of WWE, all wrapped up in a product with maybe more of a global, international flavor than WWE. They should lean into those partnerships with CMLL, NJPW, and Stardom but you have to actually let people know who these people are and WHY they are international stars. The Mae Young and Cruiserweight Classics could be a good template for the kind of product AEW could potentially have.

I'd love some new intro videos for AEW shows focusing on the "Where the best wrestle" branding with video clips of tons of international stars as well as well known, homegrown, AEW stars featuring voice clips of stuff like Bryan Danielson saying his version of heaven is him bleeding inside of a wrestling ring. This could all lead into a collage of onscreen clips featuring all of these people eventually fading into the background as the AEW logo comes on to the screen with a voice over then saying, "All Elite Wrestling, where the BEST...WRESTLE"