Sadistic and realistic gore/violence in contemporary games

[J T]

I think the people that are saying these depictions aren't realistic, gruesome, or sadistic are not being honest with themselves, or they are so desensitized that they can't see it. Of course taking pleasure in a "Fatality" is disgusting, violent, and sadistic. That's kind of the whole point. The fact that the gruesome death is comical, just makes it all the more apparent that there is sadism involved. You're taking pleasure in watching someone get eviscerated.

I remember the first time I saw a Mortal Kombat fatality. Shang Tsung commanded "finish him", the screen clouded with darkness, then Johnny Cage dug deep and uppercutted a man's head clean off before putting on his sunglasses and posing for the crowd. It wasn't the actual violence that disturbed me then, it was the fact that everyone in the arcade was reveling in the violence and that we were encouraged to do so by the game. It was the promotion of sadism that bothered me.

But the real question is should we be concerned about fictional violence in our entertainment or art, and are realistic depictions of violence of particular concern. Personally, I am not concerned.

There are cons to allowing violent media, certainly. While taking part in gore entertainment doesn't make you a murderer (and only the most ridiculous of people believe this), we do become desensitized, and when people are desensitized, they are less likely to care when they encounter violence in real life and less likely to help those that need help. That's a real problem and we need to be honest that it is a problem. I don't believe banning violent media is the solution though. We can devise other solutions to promote empathy, helping behaviors, and social welfare.

We also shouldn't ban violent media because there are actual benefits to having this kind of entertainment and/or art. Aside from being entertaining, I would argue that it can even be enriching. Just because you ban entertainment that appeals to your dark side, doesn't mean that you don't have one. Now, I'm not talking about the common misconception that you can "vent out your aggression" in a game so that you don't aggress in real life. The whole idea of using video games for catharsis of violent impulses is silly- catharsis has been shown to have the opposite effect of encouraging more expressions of anger/violence rather than allowing one to simply blow off steam. However, I think playing in a game space (or fictional movie/literature/msuic space) allows us to become familiar with violence and darkness so that we recognize it when it comes and we are not left stunned and helpless to it. This is something that many people don't talk about, and I think they just are too afraid to talk about it. They don't want to admit to others, or even to themselves, that they might have a sadistic side, or that they might enjoy crushing their enemies on screen, or that they fantasize about killing their boss (even though they'd never actually do it... maybe), or that they've wondered if they could ever get away with murder, or that they thought about ending their own life. These are the dark sides of the human psyche that most of us don't want to touch, at least not directly. In extreme stress, we have both the capacity for flight and to fight. The power of our minds and our bodies is not inherently good or evil. It's just raw power that can be used either way. But given that is true, wouldn't you rather be informed? Wouldn't you rather see it coming? Wouldn't a knowledge of the evil you're capable of help you prevent it from actually coming true?


Or perhaps I am just a byproduct of a violent culture (America) and I can't see the world any other way, so naturally I think violent media is fine. Hmmm....

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Interestingly enough, I can handle all the gore in the world on a computer screen, but, even a small amount of blood in real life makes me feel a bit sick and quite anxious.

Take that for what it's worth.

[AppleQueso]

I think the people that are saying these depictions aren't realistic, gruesome, or sadistic are not being honest with themselves, or they are so desensitized that they can't see it.
[snip]

You make a good post, but I gotta point out this. Say what you will about them being "gruesome" or "sadistic", there's no way you could argue that Mortal Kombat's depictions of violence are "realistic".

I think what bothers me most is that when people start going on about a game being 'sadistic' or 'psychotic', I feel like that by extension they are saying that if you enjoy these games, you yourself are sadistic or psychotic or a disgusting individual. I know that folks in this thread aren't necessarily saying that, but I guess it's in my nature to want to jump to that conclusion.

JT, how do you explain the idea of being desensitized to the more goofy, over-the-top violence in something like Mortal Kombat, yet still being disturbed by a film like Hostel or by depictions of real-life violence and gore?

[J T]

You make a good post, but I gotta point out this. Say what you will about them being "gruesome" or "sadistic", there's no way you could argue that Mortal Kombat's depictions of violence are "realistic".

What? You can't rip a man's spine out with your bare hand? WIMP!

No, obviously MK is so over-the-top as to be impossible, but I think the point is that the way the graphics look now is much more realistic than how they looked in 1992. It's still camp, but the blood spurts and the organs shlop to the floor in a much more realistic manner than before.

I think what bothers me most is that when people start going on about a game being 'sadistic' or 'psychotic', I feel like that by extension they are saying that if you enjoy these games, you yourself are sadistic or psychotic or a disgusting individual. I know that folks in this thread aren't necessarily saying that, but I guess it's in my nature to want to jump to that conclusion.

I guess I would say that we are all capable of being a bit sadistic, or even psychotic. I think media violence relies on that. No matter how realistic graphics get though, it's always fictional, so it never crosses the line that actually matters (unless that line is a psychological one, rather than a behavioral one).

JT, how do you explain the idea of being desensitized to the more goofy, over-the-top violence in something like Mortal Kombat, yet still being disturbed by a film like Hostel or by depictions of real-life violence and gore?

Real life is where the line is clearly drawn. The closer you approximate it, the more disturbing it becomes. As long as we can convince ourselves it's fantasy though, we can develop a thick stomach for some rather awful stuff. People that cross that line are the ones that worry me.

[Luke]

This conversation has reached a fever pitch of over analysis and absurdity. Not all pretend violence is sadistic, and vice versa.

We're talking about an imaginary frozen man quartering a man who has a non-existent successful movie career who is known for punching people in the balls while doing the splits whose name isn't Steven Segal.

I pick nits as much, if not more than the next person, but for crying out loud what do you expect from a game named MORTAL KOMBAT?

[o.pwuaioc]

Of course taking pleasure in a "Fatality" is disgusting, violent, and sadistic.

So all Romans were disgusting, violent, and sadistic? Clearly this is a subjective and modern-centric stance.

Or perhaps I am just a byproduct of a violent culture (America) and I can't see the world any other way, so naturally I think violent media is fine. Hmmm....

That's a very limited perspective.

[AppleQueso]

This conversation has reached a fever pitch of over analysis and absurdity. Not all pretend violence is sadistic, and vice versa.

We're talking about an imaginary frozen man quartering a man who has a non-existent successful movie career who is known for punching people in the balls while doing the splits whose name isn't Steven Segal.

I pick nits as much, if not more than the next person, but for crying out loud what do you expect from a game named MORTAL KOMBAT?

JT's post by the end of it boils down to "I don't think violent media is a problem."

[brunoafh]

Of course taking pleasure in a "Fatality" is disgusting, violent, and sadistic.

So all Romans were disgusting, violent, and sadistic? Clearly this is a subjective and modern-centric stance.

Well it's definitely violent and sadistic. Disgusting though, that part I would say is subjective. Personally I would swap that part out and replace it with "awesome".

[Luke]

"Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar".

[AppleQueso]

Incidentally this thread prompted me to finally get around to moving my MK2 arcade cab into my game room. I like where it's at now, though i'm starting to run low on space!