2D Shooters Invade

Should scores require a file (MAME) if score will be in top end of SotM / STGT / Hi-Score Thread

Yes, sadly there are cheaters out there
6
29%
No, we can trust each other, there aren't any prizes anyways
15
71%
 
Total votes : 21
mjmjr25
 

Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by mjmjr25 Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:40 am

Recently using MAME here i've been exposed to savestates.

Going back through some hi-score competitions, it seems the MAME scores are generally higher than console/pcb scores.

I'm just putting this out there. I really hope people aren't "building" runs by creating save-states.

My understanding is a save-state is meant as a way to practice a certain part of a game - after creating a save-state at the stage 4 boss of Eco Fighters; I loaded that save and lo and behold, I had my 2 ships and my score...there was no way to discern this "run" from a legitimate run. Not cool.

In fact, I am thinking we should run a poll to require recorded files of any run that may place in a hi-score thread, or top 5 in a sotm / stgt competition.

Not accusing anyone - but it just doesn't feel right to me...at all.

Poll coming up...
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DocHauser
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by DocHauser Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:00 am

mjmjr25 wrote:I'm just putting this out there. I really hope people aren't "building" runs by creating save-states.

My understanding is a save-state is meant as a way to practice a certain part of a game - after creating a save-state at the stage 4 boss of Eco Fighters; I loaded that save and lo and behold, I had my 2 ships and my score...there was no way to discern this "run" from a legitimate run. Not cool.

In fact, I am thinking we should run a poll to require recorded files of any run that may place in a hi-score thread, or top 5 in a sotm / stgt competition.

Not accusing anyone - but it just doesn't feel right to me...at all.

Poll coming up...


Eh...save states have always been around. At some point you just have to trust that people are submitting legit scores. Once you start imposing strict limits on supposedly friendly competition, then you'll find that people just aren't prepared to go to the hassle of submitting scores.

For the record, I used save states to practice the Stage 2, Stage 4 and Stage 5 bosses in Eco Fighters. Once I had the method down, I starting going for full runs. In the 1.5M score I posted, I no-missed stages 1 to 5. I doubt I'd have improved as quickly as I did if I was playing full credits every time.
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Luke
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by Luke Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:14 am

DocHauser wrote:Eh...save states have always been around.



Eh...no they haven't.

I don't emulate and don't plan to emulate games. Shmups are a genre of games that are not meant to played with save states. If they were meant to have save states, they would have had them in the game.

If you want to use them to practice, fine. But any score that has been gained by using save states is null and void. It's cheating.
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BogusMeatFactory
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by BogusMeatFactory Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:22 am

Like stated before, I have used the save states for practice in understanding bosses and patterns. At no point in time do I think people should use them for their high score runs, but I am sure some of the people are.

With Ecofighters, I do think that the Save States have given people the practice they need to improve their overall score when they do the runs. Instead of having to run through the level with a chance to reach the boss, only to die and have to repeat the process, a MAME player can just save state right before the boss and learn it so that when they do get to the boss for the high score run, they can handle it.

I think the decision to require video runs should be left to the person running the high score thread. In some instances, it is just a friendly competition and for some it is serious business.
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DocHauser
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by DocHauser Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:24 am

Luke wrote:
DocHauser wrote:Eh...save states have always been around.

Eh...no they haven't.


OK, Mr Pedantic, as long as MAME has been around (I suppose early versions of MAME didn't have it, but for the most part anyway).

If you want to use them to practice, fine. But any score that has been gained by using save states is null and void. It's cheating.


What's the problem then? I used them to practice. And obviously any score that has been gained using save states is cheating. I don't think anyone was saying anything otherwise.
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AppleQueso
 

Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by AppleQueso Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:26 am

I trust our userbase to not do that sort of thing and effectively cheat for a place on the score table. No need to impose those rules here I think.
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Luke
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by Luke Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 am

DocHauser wrote:What's the problem then? I used them to practice. And obviously any score that has been gained using save states is cheating. I don't think anyone was saying anything otherwise.



What problem are you talking about?

I was answering Mike's question, which is the point of this thread.
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DocHauser
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by DocHauser Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 am

I have one .inp file of a 900k+ run in Eco Fighters. I can easily record a new one with 1,000k+ if anyone wants to see it. Be warned, you'll have to sit through several minutes of me milking the Stage 2 boss, though... :)

I was going to upload it to Mediafire, but it seems they need registration now. Tsk. If it's possible to add attachments to PMs, then I can send it to someone that way.
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by BoneSnapDeez Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 am

I never use save states unless I'm trying to do something like capture screenshots.

They always felt like "cheating" to me. I don't even use them in emulated RPGs, I use that same "save points" that the legitimate game uses.

Save states exist outside of emulation now - especially in compilations of older games. I believe you can save-state in most Sega, Midway, and Taito compilations. Not sure about SNK comps.
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DocHauser
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Re: Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by DocHauser Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:29 am

Luke wrote:
DocHauser wrote:What's the problem then? I used them to practice. And obviously any score that has been gained using save states is cheating. I don't think anyone was saying anything otherwise.



What problem are you talking about?

I was answering Mike's question, which is the point of this thread.


You were stating the obvious.
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