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Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:43 pm
by Ziggy587
Oh, DOOM Eternal is out? I guess it's time I finally play DOOM 2016 then, huh?

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:25 pm
by Gunstar Green
MrPopo wrote:
marurun wrote:I have been reading that it is mostly better, but there are a few gotchas that will affect whether your preference is ultimately for Eternal or 2016.

I'd agree with this statement. The game is much more about resource management; you will be chainsawing at least once per fight, and weaving in glory kills and flamethrower usage is critical.


I like the sound of that. I thought there were some interesting ideas for resource management in 2016 that weren't used to their potential because resources were generally plentiful.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:06 am
by RCBH928
When playing videogames, its logical that you would be preserving ammo and items, I like how id Software chose to make the original Doom fun by using ammo and blasting enemies mercilessly as much as possible. Honestly, I would have walked around the levels carefully using the pistol, but now that I know how developers think, I know this is how they meant for the game to be played.

I didn't play them but I am glad people are enjoying the new Doom(s). I thought they would be just selling on the brand recognition, and its going to be just a crazy mindless shooter on modern 3D steroids. Glad it did not take the Duke Nukem path.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:59 am
by dsheinem
The resource management in Eternal is really well done and perfects/expands on the ideas for this that were hinted at in Doom 2016. You essentially have three meters that you constantly have to monitor (health, ammo, and armor) and three different kinds of attacks that replenish each of those. At its best, the game is throwing a dozen enemies or more (of various difficulty levels and types) all at you and all at one time in a confined space, forcing you to shoot, run, and jump around constantly to not die. It requires you to get really good at using each kind of weapon on each kind of enemy (who each have their own weak spots) to enact a variety of strategic crowd-control measures, all at breakneck speed.

When I think of “resource management” I tend to think of slower-paced games (e.g. Resident Evil and survival sims), but this is not that. Cranking the game’s amazing soundtrack and whizzing around a room blasting demons in this one is as dizzying and thrilling as the series has ever been. The game is intense. It also looks amazing both graphically and in its design. The Gore Nest level is a particularly memorable earlier stage...

The other biggest change over Doom 2016 is that there is a bit more platforming than I expected, but it fits well with the design of the game overall and also offers a fun challenge.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:48 am
by marurun
Everything you guys are saying indicates to me I won't like Eternal as much as 2016. That doesn't sound like my kind of jam.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:34 am
by dsheinem
marurun wrote:Everything you guys are saying indicates to me I won't like Eternal as much as 2016. That doesn't sound like my kind of jam.


How do you feel about Doom II? This really feels like a natural extension/evolution of the gameplay in that one...

Eternal also reminds me of Quake III in some ways, and I expect the multiplayer offers a similar feel...anyone mess with it yet?

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:44 am
by marurun
I like Doom II better than Doom, but the complexity of Doom Eternal sounds like it might be a turnoff for me.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:58 am
by MrPopo
I don't know that I'd necessarily call it complex. Ammo is ammo, obviously, and when it gets low you just hit your chainsaw key on a weak enemy and you're refilled; maybe you do it twice if you had extra fuel, since each one gives you about half your max ammo. The main decision point is whether you switch to a different weapon and let that get low before using it or not.

For armor, there are two ways to refill it. Hit enemies with the flamethrower (with a long cooldown) and then shoot them, so you do that on cooldown. The other way is a mastered super shotgun; you grapple into an enemy and get one shot off and it gives you armor (as they are burning for the duration of the grapple). So that is mostly a bonus as an opener on using the super shotty, and you want to be using it close anyway, so it's essentially free armor (and is also useful to get yourself out of a tight melee).

For health, large enemies you are likely going to be staggering because of the damage requirements, so doing a glory kill is incentivized. It's the weaker enemies where you're potentially doing things like going to a weaker weapon to get a stagger on them; chaining a couple of staggers can bring you from almost dead to full.

And you should naturally be switching weapons between enemies based on what they can do, just like you did in 2016. You don't want to close range a melee enemy, for example, and you don't want to use a heavy weapon on a weak enemy.

I'd recommend you see if you can find a decent stream of gameplay and see if it looks interesting to you.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:57 pm
by Gunstar Green
dsheinem wrote:The other biggest change over Doom 2016 is that there is a bit more platforming than I expected, but it fits well with the design of the game overall and also offers a fun challenge.


I heard people complain about this but I absolutely loved the platforming in 2016 so again it doesn't sound like a negative change to me, just a progression of what was already there.

Re: The DOOM Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:19 pm
by MrPopo
There's a handful of sections near the end of the game that aren't super well designed (you'll probably fall once or twice because you have to learn a new rule on the fly over a bottomless pit), but otherwise it's used just the right amount.