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bmoc
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Re: PC build thread

by bmoc Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:28 pm

I started looking at cases the other day and I'm right there with you Ziggy. My last case was a Cooler Master Storm Scout. I still like it except it doesn't have USB 3.0 on the front. I thought I'd look for a case with USB 3.1 or 3.2 on the front and those aren't super common yet.

And then there is problem of cases ditching 5.25 inch bays. I still use my CD/DVD drive and I'd rather not go external if I don't have to.

Aside from that, there is my problem with aesthetics. I don't care for all the RGB lighting nonsense. I don't want to pay for that if I dont have to.

Maybe I will just get a front 5.25" USB 3.1 panel to upgrade my current case. If I do get a new case, it will probably be this one https://www.newegg.com/black-corsair-ca ... 6811139117. I dig its minimalist design.
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:45 pm

Yep, you and me are PC case brothers. I still use my optical drive as well, so that axes about half the cases right there. And I don't understand the fascination with RGB.

Just FYI though, the naming for USB 3 is all messed up and confusing right now. So USB 3.0 and 3.1 Gen 1 are the same thing. USB 3.1 Gen 2 is different. The reason why is dumb, but that's what we have to deal with right now.

The case I ended up going with (I just posted another thread in this forum) has "3.0" ports, which means I can use my 3.1 Gen 1 headers but I guess Gen 2 wont work (I think the cable will determine this, not the actual port). I didn't see any cases that specified Gen 2 ports, they don't appear to be common yet. But 3.1 Gen 1 will be good enough for me for now. My last mobo only had 2.0, and I never bothered to upgrade to 3.0. I don't think I currently have anything that will take advantage of Gen 2 speeds, so I'll be OK with 3.1 Gen 1 for now. Like you said, I'll just add a 5.25" panel if need be.
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Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:31 pm

marurun wrote:I don’t understand PSU on bottom cases. PSU often takes air out of the case, and you want that on top, since heat rises. Doesn’t make sense to put a source of heat at the bottom of the PC, even if that makes it easier to plug in.


It's actually a very logical move, particularly in conjunction with some of the other design and part trends these days. Not that it's all that new - I've built with the Antec 300 case a few times, and that was set up sort of like this a decade+ ago.

First, consider that many modern cases in this layout aren't just moving the PSU to the bottom, but they're also incorporating a shroud or compartment for it (can just skim here for instance). Echoes of the thermal zoning that high end workstations tend to be designed around (back to the PowerMac G5 if you like, though HP Z series and all are similar).
Could that be done with the PSU up top? Sure. But, if a case isn't making space for optical drives (as most aren't), then putting it in a lower zone lets you leave the top open for cooling.

As Ziggy mentioned, top-mounted cooling is common now. At one point, that might have been space for a single fan up top, but a modern case tends to have space for several, or a multi-fan radiator. Achieving that without having a ginormous cases means clearing space up top. It's often the primary exhaust (illustrated by Corsair here for instance) rather than the back. Relative to the 90 degree motherboard mounting in my current case the modern design seems pretty simple :lol:

It also helps with aesthetics or general case organization. The zone/shroud type setup - as highlighted on the Corsair site there, etc - keeps a lot of drives and cabling out of the way. You're basically shifting the mobo/GPU zone up, and fitting a lot of the other stuff in on the bottom. It can be a great setup for cooling. I think the problem you tend to run into is that the popular designs for the front panel are often fairly solid, and rely on vents around the edges to pull air in.

Personally, I do still use my optical drive, albeit almost entirely for ripping CDs. I'd have preferred to see things shift towards space for a slimline drive as standard, but meh. I anticipate building into a modern case when I upgrade, and dealing with the lack of an internal ODD.
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:56 pm

Good point about a lot of cases not having any 5.25" bays. I tend to forget about that because I still use optical drives. But yeah, no optical drives and PSU on bottom leaves the top of the case open for cooling options. Like radiators for liquid cooling, which I forgot to mention.
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Re: PC build thread

by marurun Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:44 pm

I see. Thanks for illuminating that design choice. My current PC is about 5 years old or so, and while I saw those designs, I didn’t understand the rationale.
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:07 pm

I didn't understand the appeal either when I was picking out a case 10 years ago. But after thinking about it over the years the concept really grew on me.

It'll also be fun just to try something different. :P
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Re: PC build thread

by pierrot Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:54 pm

How the hell did I wander into here--? Well, since I was in the market for a new computer, and with AMD seeming to rival Intel with their new processors, I started thinking about building a fairly saucy rig. I was getting all hot to trot on this build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FfZGmq.

With the timing, I was also thinking of just nixing the idea of getting a PS4 to play Shenmue III, and putting that money into the graphics card. It's probably way overkill for my setup anyway, but the recommendations on PC were a GTX 1070 or better, and the RTX 2070 didn't seem to be much of a cost difference. Who knows, maybe I'll actually get a 4k display next year. There was probably some savings that could have been made with the mobo, but it doesn't really matter. I ended up finding an open-box prebuilt system with almost identical components, for $150 less, even after all the rebates. (Also doesn't account for the mouse and keyboard included with the prebuilt.) So I just ordered that instead. Saves me a lot of time that I might not have right now, anyway. However, I did realize after the fact that the motherboard in the prebuilt was not an X570, like I had thought it was, but an X470--. Oh well. I had kind of wanted that future proofing, since I'm probably unlikely to upgrade for another ~10 years, but the likelihood that I actually need PCIe 4.0 is probably close to nil. The X470 that's in it appears to be half-decent, anyway: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157833.

It will be very weird for me to have a Windows machine, since I've avoided that for so long, but one of the first things I intend to do is flush out whatever OS install they put on it, and installing Linux for my main environment, with the most stripped down Windows 10 environment as would be reasonable for gaming and streaming.

So this is less of a post about building, and more of a post on how I saved money by not building it, as long as they don't end up sending me some kind of potato. If it works out, I imagine the first thing I'll be playing on it is Sonic Mania, finally. (No, no. I'm totally doing it right. :mrgreen: )
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:04 am

pierrot wrote:However, I did realize after the fact that the motherboard in the prebuilt was not an X570, like I had thought it was, but an X470--. Oh well.


Oh well is right! I actually just built a new PC a couple months ago (here) and chose to go with an X470 over an X570. PCIe 4.0 is one thing, but the rest of the benefits I don't care about. X570 integrates a bunch of stuff I don't care about like WiFi and Blutooth. I forget the specs off the top of my head, but X570 uses a lot more power than X470, and runs a lot hotter too. That's why the motherboards have to be actively cooled. And those tiny proprietary fans never last long. And then you'll have to rig up some other fan when it dies.

pierrot wrote:It will be very weird for me to have a Windows machine, since I've avoided that for so long, but one of the first things I intend to do is flush out whatever OS install they put on it, and installing Linux for my main environment, with the most stripped down Windows 10 environment as would be reasonable for gaming and streaming.


I don't know how recent your last build was, but just as an FYI, newer motherboards will have something called Secure Boot. Basically, it's a lock in the BIOS that wont allow any code to boot unless it has a valid key. Keys will be preinstalled for Windows. You can turn it off any boot anything you'd like, but it would be safer not to. You can install more keys, which will allow you to leave it turned on and use Linux. You may already know all of this, but I just thought I'd mention in case you didn't.
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:25 am

Ziggy587 wrote:Oh well is right! I actually just built a new PC a couple months ago (here) and chose to go with an X470 over an X570. PCIe 4.0 is one thing, but the rest of the benefits I don't care about. X570 integrates a bunch of stuff I don't care about like WiFi and Blutooth. I forget the specs off the top of my head, but X570 uses a lot more power than X470, and runs a lot hotter too. That's why the motherboards have to be actively cooled. And those tiny proprietary fans never last long. And then you'll have to rig up some other fan when it dies.


Other than PCIe 4.0, the only other major feature addition for X570 over X470 is USB 3.2 gen 2 (or whatever they've decided to rebrand it to this week). WiFi/Bluetooth aren't inherently part of either chipset, and are simply things that can be included as a feature. The Prime model boards, like you got, don't include them, even on the X570 model.

Running PCIe 4.0 features, particularly, does mean high power draw though. Apparently PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs run a bit warm too, and they're about the only thing to use with it right now. So, it's more a future proofing, if anything, that costs a good bit more. I still bought one when I built my new machine, and I sprung for a more feature-laden board 'cause why not at that point :lol:
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:59 am

Oh, I thought X470 had USB 3.1 Gen 2. Either way, I noticed when building that cases don't have front USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports (and a lot of cases don't have front bays either, so that limits adding front ports). But either way, you could always drop a PCIe card in there.

edit: My X470 board has USB 3.1 Gen 2 ( https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PR ... fications/ ). Wait, did they rename USB 3.1 Gen 2 to USB 3.2? I'm so confused!
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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