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isiolia
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Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:31 am

I think X470 technically does have a couple ports (built into the chipset that is) that are effectively 3.2 gen 2. It's confusing because they did rebrand them in between. So the specs at the time would have called them 3.1 gen 2 which is now 3.2 gen 2... so some sites still may list things separately.

I think it gets further confused by having different port specs supported by the CPUs, if not additional controllers that may be there (your board has an extra one on it, the similar X570 board doesn't).
Generally speaking though, X570 bumps the spec up, because it has the PCIe bandwidth for it. Per the chipset comparison above, X570 at least allows all the USB 3 ports to be 3.2 gen 2. I guess maybe they can be left out (based on the Prime X570 specs, unless poorly written).

Either way, that's more where the differences might be, as unlikely to really matter as it is. :lol:
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Re: PC build thread

by pierrot Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:23 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:X570 uses a lot more power than X470, and runs a lot hotter too. That's why the motherboards have to be actively cooled. And those tiny proprietary fans never last long. And then you'll have to rig up some other fan when it dies.

Yeah, the two secondary things I cared about in a new computer were keeping power ratings reasonably low, and limiting fan noise. Having the X470 in it is probably a blessing in disguise. From memory, I believe the difference in power draw was 15W with the X570, and maybe 11 or 12W with the X470. So, yeah, that's a sizable difference, and if I don't have to worry as much about additional cooling, that's also a plus. I had sort of wanted to go with a Radeon RX 5700 XT for the graphics card, but it seemed like they were only available with the ventilation out of the back of the card. I didn't want to have to worry about possibly blowing through a $400-ish graphics card in a couple years, if one of those ended up not being cooled properly.


Ziggy587 wrote:FYI, newer motherboards will have something called Secure Boot. Basically, it's a lock in the BIOS that wont allow any code to boot unless it has a valid key. Keys will be preinstalled for Windows. You can turn it off any boot anything you'd like, but it would be safer not to. You can install more keys, which will allow you to leave it turned on and use Linux. You may already know all of this, but I just thought I'd mention in case you didn't.

I did not know any of that. Thank you for the heads-up! I'll have to look into this a bit more, but are you saying that even if I install a key for Linux, that it's essentially only retained in a volatile memory space, and would need to be reinstalled on power cycle?
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isiolia
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Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:44 pm

pierrot wrote:I did not know any of that. Thank you for the heads-up! I'll have to look into this a bit more, but are you saying that even if I install a key for Linux, that it's essentially only retained in a volatile memory space, and would need to be reinstalled on power cycle?


Nah. It's not entirely correct that keys are only preinstalled for Windows. Microsoft, in general, is a Certificate Authority for Secure Boot, and that authority is what's preinstalled (naturally, since it's what Windows relies on, and what a lot of folks will end up running). Microsoft can (and does) sign other binaries, including ones that most mainstream Linux distributions now rely on. While it is possible to create/use other certificates and keys, chances are, you won't need to.

To be fair, there was a bit of fuss around this when it originally started to be implemented. I don't recall much outside of Windows working with it initially. While there were initial fears of MS using it to lock other OS vendors out, I think it was really more a matter of few other OS vendors making a point to get it working prior to compliant devices shipping. Since they tended to come with Windows, of course that was going to work.

As mentioned though, if it prevents you from doing something, you can always just turn it off.
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Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Are you saying that a mobo might come with keys preinstalled that allow a Linux distro to boot? I didn't know that.
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isiolia
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Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:27 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Are you saying that a mobo might come with keys preinstalled that allow a Linux distro to boot? I didn't know that.


I think it's more the other way around, in that MS keys have been preloaded on x86 hardware (ARM stuff tends not to have preinstalled ones) for a while. Linux distributions have in turn adopted MS signed components - seems like shim at the core, which the Debian wiki entry for Secure Boot mentions. So, more a matter of using a new enough Linux distro/version.

At one point in time you probably did need to install your own keys if you wanted to use Secure Boot with Linux, but these days it seems less necessary.
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Re: PC build thread

by pierrot Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:39 pm

Well, I finally got a properly functioning computer up and running. I returned the prebuilt one because it was regularly throwing up stop errors from the hardware abstraction layer. I ended up building this thing: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/shkXHB; for about $225 more than the prebuilt, but at least now I know what the power supply is, anyway. It's pretty much the same thing as the build I was originally thinking of; I just went with a different brand of memory, decided to stick with the stock cooler, took the GPU up a notch to the 2070 Super, went with a more efficient power supply, and cut back on the MB with a much cheaper X470. Unfortunately, the MB didn't have a new enough BIOS for the third gen Ryzen. So I had a few options: Take it to a local repair shop for a fee; Send it to MSI for the cost of shipping; Get a bootkit from AMD. I went with the most free option of getting the bootkit from AMD, but not before getting an RMA number from MSI. I wasn't sure AMD would actually send me the bootkit, though, because MSI had technically offered to do the BIOS update. Fortunately they accepted my reasoning for why it wasn't a 'satisfactory' solution. Anyway, they sent me an Athlon APU to flash the BIOS with, and the rest is history, as they say. It cost me a lot in idle time, but it was pretty painless once I actually got the bootkit. Unfortunately, I also realized that the PSU I got is like a mini-ATX power supply, or something, and the CPU/ATX power cables are comically short for an ATX case/MB. So I had to get some extension cables, too, which kind of sucked.

Anyway, the case feels kind of cheap, and so does the rear I/O on the motherboard, but so far I'm pretty happy with it. It's pretty nice and quiet, even under load, which is something that was pretty important to me. It's also running way cooler than the prebuilt (like 20 - 30 degrees C, cooler), which is nice. I don't know if that's because of the BIOS, or the Arctic thermal paste, or just the difference in ambient temperatures over the last couple months, but I'm happy about it. I did a fairly abbreviated stress test on the CPU, but the temperature topped out at 70 C. I'm really only targeting 1080p @ 60 Hz right now, but it's pretty much like, 'Metro Exodus? Maxed out quality settings? Ray tracing on high? *Yawn* Yeah, whatevs. Here you go.' Just the other day I realized that Tetris Effect is on the Epic Store, so now I have to debate whether or not I want to get a VR headset right away--.
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