The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
AppliCotton
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by AppliCotton Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:27 pm

Ghegs wrote:Didn't Hideo Kojima once want to make a game where the physical game disc would destroy itself if the player died, or was that an urban legend?


I see Kojima's worked his way into this urban legend as well... which actually makes perfect sense, come to think of it.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.ph ... crying-Why
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Ghegs
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Ghegs Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:33 am

AppliCotton wrote:
Ghegs wrote:Didn't Hideo Kojima once want to make a game where the physical game disc would destroy itself if the player died, or was that an urban legend?


I see Kojima's worked his way into this urban legend as well... which actually makes perfect sense, come to think of it.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.ph ... crying-Why


That was an interesting read, but it wasn't what I was talking about. After some rigorous Googling I finally found some sources to back up my hazy memory:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.11/play.html

His dream is to make a game you can't restart - imagine a disc that self-destructs when you lose. Game over.


http://archive.is/9D6I

With the disposable game, if we can come up with some kind of substance that will disintegrates or a disc that shatters once you reach game over, when we can find that kind of technology at a reasonable price, then I will work on the disposable game.


http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp

Kikizo: Here's one interesting conflict when you mention design versus business. In the 2001 interview you did with us, you described a concept for a what you called a 'raw game': you buy the game, you play it, and if you lose it's over, and you have to buy it again! I wonder if this is something you still think of, seven years later? Is this the game you refer to when you mention the new titles in your mind?

Kojima: [Laughs] Well that 'raw game' concept is basically just one of the ideas I had back then, meaning combinations could always apply when creating video games; I could take that idea and other ideas that I've had, and make it into one game. But the thing that I am trying to work out right now is an idea that I had ten years ago, which I am still worried on the technical side whether it's possible or not even today.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Erik_Twice Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:40 am

Too late Kojima, Peter Molyneux is working on it as we speak :lol:
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Zodd
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Zodd Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:03 pm

Judging by some comments, saved games are just too holy to mess with.... :lol:

I was just thinking of the concept based on what I remember Roger Ebert stated when he claimed that Video Games could never be referenced as art. If I recall, he stated that Video Games ultimate goal never changed......the player always won in the end no matter what and never truly "died" or lost in a game.

The player can easily turn the game off and restart from a save point if a mistake was made.....or they can restart and grind to obtain experience to level up and eventually beat the impossible boss.

In arcades, a player can simply load the machine with quarters to see the end

It would be interesting if a game was made in which you could save in the game only if you put ALL of your other game saves as collateral.

Not for hardcore sakes.....but for a different approach on interacting with a video game.
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isiolia
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by isiolia Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:44 pm

Zodd wrote:It would be interesting if a game was made in which you could save in the game only if you put ALL of your other game saves as collateral.

Not for hardcore sakes.....but for a different approach on interacting with a video game.


Why? The purpose of save games is convenience, since the majority of adults in the world (at least) don't have the luxury of being able to play video games for hours/days at a time uninterrupted.

Aggressive auto-saving and/or permadeath create much the same "stakes", except that they actually allow a game to be playable for people with, you know, jobs and stuff.
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fastbilly1
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by fastbilly1 Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:23 pm

Gamerforlife wrote:then there's that super expensive mech game from Capcom

But in Steel Battalion you have enough time to get out usually. Lots of alarms and visual cues. Besides that is just effecting that games save, not all game saves.
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Hatta Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:59 pm

I think the best way to add challenge with saved games is the Nethack way. You get one save. Reloading destroys that save. This helps out the people who can't finish a game in one sitting, but prevents 'do overs'.

Of course, then you have to make your game compelling enough to get people to start over once they die. If they are stuck playing the same damn missions, that's not fun for anyone. So this has to be combined with at least some level of procedural content generation. Again, like Nethack.
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Ghegs
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Ghegs Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:03 pm

Zodd wrote:In arcades, a player can simply load the machine with quarters to see the end


That's not considered beating the game, though.
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ninjainspandex
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by ninjainspandex Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:26 pm

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Let's play a video game. The Sandwhich you just ate has a slow acting poison in it, you have 24 hours to live. The game cartridge in front of you contains a map that will show you the location of the antidote after you beat it. Good luck!
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Ack
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Re: Saved games...the last option to challenge game players

by Ack Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:37 pm

ninjainspandex wrote:Let's play a video game. The Sandwhich you just ate has a slow acting poison in it, you have 24 hours to live. The game cartridge in front of you contains a map that will show you the location of the antidote after you beat it. Good luck!


And THAT is how they get people to play the SAW video game.
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