The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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Erik_Twice
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Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by Erik_Twice Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:48 am

If you check out the boardgaming community you will already know that kickstarter started to gain a lot of haters after a while, with critics feeling betrayed once established companies started using Kickstarter or thinking Kickstarter will flood the market with mediocre games no publisher wanted to pick up.

And it will happen here, it just hasn't gained ground yet. In less than a month we will start seeing these threads and posts everywhere. And it's inevitable some big project bombs and turns badly.

But really, who cares? Having another market isn't a negative thing. Sure, it's patronage and that's not as cut and dry as buying stuff, but patronage is a benefitial thing. Just don't support shitty stuff or stuff you don't like. Buyer beware, but the buyer should ALWAYS beware, no matter what he's spending his money on.

Some say that it's wrong for a publisher to use kickstarter to reduce risk or to "move risk to the costumers". Again, buyer beware, if it looks shitty, don't. But there's no reaosn to wish kickstarter didn't exist or to limit it only to indies. Money is money! Kickstarter is a bussiness as are the projects contained therein, take them for what they are!

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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by AppleQueso Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:02 am

The internet is finnicky and hates everything.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by fvgazi Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:05 am

I have no problem with it. If people want to donate money for a project to get made, let em'. No one is forcing you to support anything you don't want to. In my experience it has only helped people out. As for producing an influx of mediocre games? Have they looked at games that have existed over the past 30 years? I'd say well over half of the games in existence are mediocre or terrible doing things the old fashioned way.

on a side note... I've seen many smaller bands use kickstarter when terrible things happen such as getting gear stolen from shows, or when emergencies that happen on tour. The nice thing is that the community supports the band and helps them out because they like them. No one is out to make a profit, just get back what was lost to continue providing what everyone already wants.

If a team/person with the technical expertise to make a game is willing to create something you're interested in, why not support it? I find it better than shelling out $60 for a mediocre game you had no part it making.

Again - people are turning this into problem with making MONEY rather than making a QUALITY PIECE OF WORK. Screw the publishers. We don't need a middle man to enjoy gaming. Maybe if publishers weren't so worried about trying to achieve a ridiculous profit margin then we would have better games, but that's for another arguement.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by AppleQueso Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:09 am

I thought the gaming populace hated publishers anyway. Now that there's an effective way to forego publishers, they get pissy about it?
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by sabrage Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:15 am

The only legitimate criticism I've seen leveled against Kickstarter (and it's a big one) is that there's not real guarantee from Kickstarter or the project creator that the project will ever be finished once funded. I tend to stick with high-publicity projects with known backgrounds for this reason; if Double Fine Adventure never saw the light of day, Double Fine would lose a huge chunk the fan support and adoration they've built up.

I think that it's a fine resurrection of the independent entrepreneur, and there's not really such a thing as a "market flood" in as free and diverse a market as videogames anyways. These are the same people that complain about how "games are shitty these days" in a year that gave us The Binding of Isaac, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Serious Sam 3 simply because three warshooters made headlines... Or, 4 in 5 people you meet on video game-related websites.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by fvgazi Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:24 am

sabrage wrote:The only legitimate criticism I've seen leveled against Kickstarter (and it's a big one) is that there's not real guarantee from Kickstarter or the project creator that the project will ever be finished once funded.


There have been plenty of publisher backed projects that never saw the light of day, or were completely remade into another game.

You also need to be smart about your donations. I don't think I would be too angry if I lost $10 to a game that was never published. I'm sure this would not happen every single time I donate to a kickstarter fund. Maybe more problems would emerge once it becomes more of a standard for funding games?
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by sabrage Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:35 am

fvgazi wrote:
sabrage wrote:The only legitimate criticism I've seen leveled against Kickstarter (and it's a big one) is that there's not real guarantee from Kickstarter or the project creator that the project will ever be finished once funded.


There have been plenty of publisher backed projects that never saw the light of day, or were completely remade into another game.

The publishers don't ask for your money up front. I don't know if there's any documented evidence of projects not coming to fruition, but Kickstarter is in its infancy. As more projects meet and fault on their intended launch dates, people are going to wonder where there money is and there's no guarantee or liability from Kickstarter for the creator to deliver the project as advertised, whereas with a pre-order your money would simply be refunded when the game was officially canceled. I'm just a little worried as to the margin for fraud, but I think the Kickstarter community has a pretty good nose for bullshit.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by J T Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:18 pm

This recent story about how one project's kickstarter funds were largely used towards paying fees made me realize just how much money it costs to make a videogame. I always think of kickstarter as putting money into the hands of the developer, but quite a lot goes into paying marketing and legal fees; plus the cut that kickstarter and amazon payments take.

http://kotaku.com/5902280/what-the-hell ... rter-money

The recent Grim Dawn kickstarter that fastbilly posted about elsewhere makes a good point though. You can leave a developer on their own to create a game an reward them for their efforts afterwards by buying the finished product, or you can give them money ahead of time to fund work towards making the best product possible. While kickstarter is a risk, it also stands to have a higher reward than traditional payment methods. Game developers are just beginning to learn what prostitutes have known for years: ask for the money up front.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by Nemoide Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Coincidentally, I actually just submitted a project to Kickstarter for review a little earlier today. (I'll post a thread about it when it's ready.)

I think the real thing about Kickstarter is that it's best for small, specific projects. So I'm using it for a game, but specifically to get professional-quality CDs of the game made. I realize that the "Kickstarter Bubble" has pretty much burst, but I still think it's a good shot at having something done that I can't afford on my own.

I don't think it's fair to hate Kickstarter, but I also don't think Kickstarter is a good business model for all creative projects.
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Re: Countdown to kickstarter hate beings in...

by J T Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:59 pm

I think a good kickstarter project is one that offers enough reward, given the risks. For example, a game that wouldn't be made by a major studio is worth investing in because it may be our only shot at seeing it happen. This is partly why Tim Schafer's recent kickstarter was so successful is because people want to see another adveenture game in the same vein as his classics (Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango). Those kind of games just aren't made as often today, so those that want to see them revived by the man himself have a substantial reward to gain on their investment. I think a more generic game that looks like what the industry already produces isn't going to do very well on kickstarter. I heard that the kickstarter for "Hardcore Tactical Shooter" didn't do very well, which I think was becausei it didn't distinguish itself very well from all the other shooters out there (though it did look to do some things quite differently, it wasn't immediately apparent).

Minecraft did this same kind of alpha prepurchase funding the beta thing as well, though not actually on kickstarter. That game was wildly successful because it was a pioneering game. I bought in early just because the design was already clearly something special in the alpha build.
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