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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by BoneSnapDeez Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:00 pm

:shock: Mother of God...... I didn't realize there WAS a Sears variant. "Math"????? Absolutely heinous.
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CFFJR
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by CFFJR Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:58 pm

noiseredux wrote:lol. Well, out of curiosity, what do you love about them? And how do you perceive my specific complaints?


Edit: This post is obnoxiously long. I'm sorry.

Well I honestly think they're really fun. I love the music and the level variety (though there are a couple of frustrating stinkers), the visuals are beautiful, and some of the boss battles are very exciting while also being ridiculous. The humor definitely isn't for everyone, and I don't think it's clever or anything like that, but it is absurd and silly in a way that makes me smile. I will always be amused by elevator muzak in hell heck. It's interesting that you made the comparison to Ren and Stimpy, because I can definitely see the parallels, but I never particularly liked that show or its style of humor. Which I guess means that the Jim games hit a specific button for me on their own. I wish the gunfire had a bit more impact though. You can burn through ammo in seconds, and as you progress you start to realize that short bursts of fire are more effective than sustained fire, which is kind of a bummer, at least in terms of the feel.

Now, as for your criticisms. Believe it or not I actually agree with just about everything. With the caveat that a lot of the problems you're describing (not all, I'll get to that) are a product of the version you're playing. The gba version is unfortunately a really poor port.

So, color wise, that's probably a taste thing that I can't argue with. The gba version is washed out like many early gba games are, but the style is still the same and the better colors in the console versions still probably wouldn't appeal to you.

Regarding animations, hit detection, movement, that's all gba. The genesis version is smooth and snappy and responsive. You could probably still argue that it's over animated (I'd call it a preference thing) since they were going for a cartoony style, but it doesn't interfere with the controls the way something like Prince of Persia does. You don't have to complete animations before a new one will start. The gba version is just choppy and odd, and it seems like some sprites have been cut out of animations, making Jim's movement look and feel very jittery. Top all this off with the cropped camera and it feels bad man. I'm not sure what the issue actually was here, because I believe the gba is more than capable of handling a game like Earthworm Jim.

Another change on that note is the Andy Asteroids bonus levels. On the gba, the movement is slow, and the spheres and asteroids kind of just drop on you from the top of the screen. In the originals, they move toward you down the tube at a fast pace, there are many more to collect, and it's much more interesting and fun. Don't get me wrong, it still gets repetitive after a few goes. But there was no reason for this to happen. The Sonic Advance games have bonus levels of this type (much more complicated really) with no issues. So the system can handle it.

As for the level design and the platforming, I totally get your point. The game is definitely guilty of having some levels where the design and background elements sometimes do a very poor job of directing you, and it's not always clear what it is or isn't a platform. It can be frustrating and annoying and there's no two ways about that. A player either tolerates it or not. Heck is an early game example of where this can go horribly wrong, and I know people have stopped there because of that.

Like I said above, I really like the platforming levels a lot (my main issue with EWJ 2 is there are a lot more gimmick levels compared to regular platforming and shooting) but I understand when folks don't.

So I know you're probably done with the game in general, but if you're curious at all, I'd recommend checking out the Genesis or Sega CD Versions (or SNES, if you must :wink: ), just for a level or two, to see how different they feel. Even a video would do the trick to see the difference in action.

Well that was a giant, wordy wall of text. Sorry for blathering on. I wasn't trying to be a spastic fan, just thorough. For what it's worth, I know Key-Glyph is also a fan, so if you want to hear from someone with actual credibility, ask her. Lord knows I can't be trusted. :lol:

BoneSnapDeez wrote:No shit shall be given. It's okay to like things.


I dunno man, that's not what I learned on the internet. But still, you have a kind soul Mr. Deez.
GameSack wrote:That's right, only Sega had the skill to make a proper Nintendo game.
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Nemoide
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by Nemoide Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:51 pm

I'm also in the Earthworm Jim-loving camp.
Maybe nostalgia is a big factor and I feel like I've played through the first game enough times in my youth to have all the tough parts memorized. It may not be precise, but to me it doesn't feel unfair; having a percentile-health system, two main attacks with aiming, and the ability to slow a fall all help make the game somewhat forgiving. The level design might be all over the place, but there's a certain insane logic to it that feels more original than other platform games where it's just "forest level, water level, ice level, volcano level, etc."
I have more fun playing EWJ than I do Cool Spot or Mickey Mania. I'm not nearly as into platformers as I once was, but I still think of EWJ as one of the good ones. I haven't played the GBA port though.

I also think the Saturday morning cartoon was brilliant. It's too bad Doug TenNapel is an asshole, but I still like Jim!
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MrPopo
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by MrPopo Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 pm

If you want a real controversial opinion, I like Earthworm Jim 2 more than the first game. I think it has better level design in terms of you being able to figure out where to go and what you can stand on.
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opa
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by opa Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:19 am

I'm mostly indifferent to Earthworm Jim but What the Heck?! is one of my favorite stages in platformers from the time.

Actually, now that I think about it; I'd rather play Earthworm Jim over DKC
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noiseredux
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by noiseredux Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:08 am

@CF: thank you! That post was fantastic. Totally what I was looking for. Good stuff.
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by prfsnl_gmr Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:14 am

I played some more Eternal Ring last night. Like most From Software ARPGs, it gets better and better as you go. I wandered into some woods last night, saw a lizard man minding its own business, attacked it with fire magic, and when it retaliated, was killed instantly. When this happened I thought: (1) I’m probably not ready for this section of the game yet; and (2) I probably deserved that. The lizard man taking a peaceful stroll in the woods wasn’t hurting anyone! :lol:
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Gunstar Green
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by Gunstar Green Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:49 am

opa wrote:I'm mostly indifferent to Earthworm Jim but What the Heck?! is one of my favorite stages in platformers from the time.

Actually, now that I think about it; I'd rather play Earthworm Jim over DKC


Careful, you'll get my DKC hating self all excited with words like these.
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by BoneSnapDeez Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:13 pm

Has anyone else noticed that almost all the second gen systems (Channel F, Studio II, Atari 2600, Odyssey 2, Intellivision, ColecoVision) launched with a blackjack title? Some call this the "space age" of gaming, I call it the gambling age!

And apparently the Studio II had the same idea as Atari here...........
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I've been playing a whole bunch of 7800. Well, four launch titles repeatedly.
Two of them, I can't make much headway in. Frustratingly, this is mainly due to the controls. The 7800 controller is pretty clunky, with a joystick in the middle and two separate fire buttons on each side. Robotron: 2084 is a legend in the arcade, but playing it on the 7800 requires two sticks, or you can play it with a single controller but you have to move and shoot at the same time. Neither feels ideal, and I tap out pretty quickly. There's no feasible way to hold two 7800 controllers for the dual stick set-up, in contrast the 5200 actually had an adapter released to accommodate this. Next, Xevious. An early scrolling shmup. Many of these games are kinda crappy (never again will I play Star Force) but Xevious is one of the good ones. It has the classic two-shot system, with bullets that fly forward and bombs that drop below (with a cursor used to aim). Again, it's just awkward to play on the 7800. Just stick to the NES port.

Now, Food Fight and Galaga fare much better. Here's the funny thing: a huge chunk of 7800 titles are "one-button" games, usually arcade ports are variants of older 2600 classics. As such, you can opt for an Atari 2600 stick or multiple other more comfortable alternatives. Food Fight is an interesting little single-screen action game, where you try to lead a kid from one side of a screen to the other, to grab an ice cream cone. All the while, chefs throw healthier food at him. The kid can also pick up piles of said food to use as ammunition. There are some quirks seen here I rarely see elsewhere. For instance, if you complete a level holding some food it's still in the kid's hand when the next stage boots. There are also some "instant replays" that pop up occasionally too. Surprisingly, this game has a continue system that's similar to many black label NES games. Upon Game Over you're kicked back to the title screen, but with a level select option to pick up where you left off. Sounds great in theory, but it's ultimately pointless as levels are just randomly generated. And Galaga: a stone cold classic, obviously, and this is a very proficient port. I approve.

Gonna mess with these 7800 titles a bit more before I move on to the ColecoVision. Never realized how solid this launch line-up was:
Carnival
Cosmic Avenger
Donkey Kong
Ken Uston's Blackjack/Poker
Lady Bug
Mouse Trap
Smurf: Rescue in Gargamel's Castle
Space Fury
Space Panic
Turbo
Venture
Zaxxon

It's almost too good! Some of the console's best titles overall are found here. The ColecoVision most certainly peaked the year it was released (82).
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marurun
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Re: September Together Retro: Ready To Launch

by marurun Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Well, every Japanese 8-bit system had a launch or early baseball and mahjong title.
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