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Ziggy587
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Ziggy587 Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:37 pm

Gunstar Green wrote:We had a big discussion on this issue here:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=46356


:lol: And I basically said the same thing there: viewtopic.php?p=876225#p876225
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Tanooki Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:55 pm

Eh wow started something a little didn't I.

Ziggy, I don't believe in that 'community' and I have no reason to. I'm not about the dollar signs but the game, and if the game can be had in a physical form for a fraction of the cost I'm all for fighting what's going on now. Sure anyone could pass it off as a real one later, but that's the price of doing business, you need to be smart and buy smart or that's your problem gambling on it with any item. I'm totally on the boat of if I had the dough I'd get a kazoo writer, infinite nes lives board and start making cheap copies of those $200+ nes games for people who want to just enjoy it just like it already being done with the $300+ famicom game Gimmick.

It is patently NOT different in doing one or the other. You're just wanting to guard the NA market by picking and choosing what gray area stuff is allowed. It's the classic line of it's ok to shit in anyone else's backyard other than your own. The Japanese and the PAL people get baked by these things, but it's ok, because it didn't come out here. That's faulty unfair logic. I've seen it even fought trying to patch a US Earthbound so that it would work on a PAL repro cart and that caught hell trying to guard the overpriced value of that mediocre RPG. Clearly there are posts on this site to debate this which are linked, so I hope this doesn't derail this bit on this deceitful cartridge.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Ziggy587 Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:23 pm

I don't think you fully understand my stance, as I'm not exactly defending ANY specific circumstance. I was just pointing out a difference. I'm not saying it's better or worse to do one thing compared to another thing. I actually think that all [what we call repro carts] are harmful because they use donor carts. A true reproduction, made of all brand new parts, nothing harmed in the process, not misrepresented, I'm completely fine with. And when I say "community" I'm just using that as a general term for all of us that play retro games. I'm not talking about the monetary value of games. You should care about the community, because you're a part of it.

If you're about playing the games, then there's a better option then bootlegs and repro carts: Flash carts. They allow you to play games on real hardware. No fakes have to be made, nothing has to be harmed.

As far as PAL and JPN carts go, I think I summed up my feeling well enough in the link I posted above. Let's say I could read Japanese (which I can't). Is there a problem with me buying a bunch of SFC carts that weren't released outside of Japan to play and have in my collection? What's the difference if I bought those same carts and modified them so that they're in English? THAT'S what I was referring to. I think that is vastly different (unless you're only doing it to turn around and sell it - I'm talking about if you're doing it for yourself). To me, that's the same as if you modified your N64 to output RGB or HDMI instead of what it normally did stock. What is the harm in that?

I am most definitely NOT talking about keeping the value of high priced games high. If anything, I wouldn't mind if they all fell in price. Despite the fact that my own personal collection would be worth less, I would be able to buy more games without having to pay an arm and a leg. But for the people that will spend the money on high priced games, I don't think it's fair to them that there's now fakes floating around out there. Personally, I didn't enjoy Earthbound so much and I don't get what the big deal is with it. However, for some one that actually likes the game and wants to own a copy of it, it's not fair to them.

I typed these posts up while at work and was being distracted here and there, so I might not have been perfectly clear on a few points. I'm more agreeing with you than I'm not.
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Tanooki Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:12 pm

Perhaps a bit of a few things. I'm ok with bootlegs and repros (legit like Piko Interactive, Qwak! GBA, etc) which are all new parts. I don't like chop shop except in rare cases where it's unavoidable like Starfox 2 as no pirate is going to make a do it yourself fx2 chip.

When I think of community was at first enjoying then for much tolerating NintendoAge and they take a community view of the gaming community, where everything is communal, more or less communal property where they can tell you what you are or are not allowed to do with what you pay for and if you do a no-no you're ostracized or removed even if it's stuff done off site. That's the community I have zero interest in, the uptight control freak do as we say crowd of rabid cash valuing collectors.

I'm aware of flash carts, I've got personal issues of not being able to enjoy games on those as I never can focus on it enough as deep down it's just a shitty rom to me much like on a computer where I won't finish games either. I like something to put on myself, bogus or legit.

I think if you're buying a SFC game for yourself and then swapping the chip or whatever so it's in english, that's fair enough it is like HDMI modding a NES or whatever as it's still the thing in the end, it just outputs different. My issue was the point of buying a bunch of new or old boards to then try and sell let's say Final Fantasy V or Secret of Mana 2 to people for profit as it's often done with deceit not saying that it's a bootleg. If they're marked and charged as such I wouldn't care, same if someone started selling $50 Little Samsons using an infiniteneslives.com board using their kazoo writer (hell I'd buy that!)

I too would love to see prices return closer to reality, and if it were in my means to screw with those jamming them up flooding the market with new boards/shell/sticker stuff for a fraction of the cost I'd do so. I could care less if the values cratered, it's about the games to me too as you said I could buy more. $500 for 1 NES game or $500 for 50 nes games is a no brainer to me. I've only finished Earthbound once, it's not great, stalled out a few other times but because of the crappy price I keep it, same with a few other $100-300 titles I have as I didn't pay that for it and I wouldn't now.

I get you're agreeing more or less with me you're fine, we both mostly agree just a differing approach.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by CRTGAMER Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:52 am

Ziggy587 wrote:If you're about playing the games, then there's a better option then bootlegs and repro carts: Flash carts. They allow you to play games on real hardware. No fakes have to be made, nothing has to be harmed.

I am most definitely NOT talking about keeping the value of high priced games high. If anything, I wouldn't mind if they all fell in price. Despite the fact that my own personal collection would be worth less, I would be able to buy more games without having to pay an arm and a leg. But for the people that will spend the money on high priced games, I don't think it's fair to them that there's now fakes floating around out there. Personally, I didn't enjoy Earthbound so much and I don't get what the big deal is with it. However, for some one that actually likes the game and wants to own a copy of it, it's not fair to them.

I can see where a collector would get upset that Repos drops the value of a game, but I have no sympathy. I have bought uncommon games and have seen the price drop when a HD remake comes out on a newer system. However, I don't mind if all the game prices are at a reasonable price, nice to see an older game rediscovered even if it means a bootleg. It is only unfair to that "game stock investor" if they get duped into buying a repo by mistake. The value of a product will always change; Copies, HD update or even similar games of a genre all affect it.

Agree, the Flash Cart is a more viable method since the Repo Cart is basically in the same category, a copy played on the original console. I support repos only if they are clearly identified and sold as such and especially if the game can no longer can be bought new. Any used game do not generate money back to the original publisher, even then a repo should be less value then the real thing.

Tanooki wrote:Perhaps a bit of a few things. I'm ok with bootlegs and repros (legit like Piko Interactive, Qwak! GBA, etc) which are all new parts. I don't like chop shop except in rare cases where it's unavoidable like Starfox 2 as no pirate is going to make a do it yourself fx2 chip.

Good point. I do not like the idea of a Repo destroying a legitimate game. Maybe even that Starfox 2 could be on a Flash Cart to keep the availability of original FX games in the market? However, an unreleased game such as SNES Starfox 2 or Atari 5200 Tempest are nice to own on an actual game cart.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Ziggy587 Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:22 pm

I can't justify destroying a game to make a Star Fox 2 cart. I use to, but I just can't anymore. The game kinda sucks. It's neat to check out in an emulator as a curiosity, and it's awesome that we have the ROM, but at the end of the day it's an unfinished game that wasn't released. It's hardly the holy grail that people make it out to be. Do you think after teaser ads and a nearly finished game that Nintendo would have just scrapped it because the N64 was on the horizon? That could have been part of it, but if the game was that close to being finished there had to be other reasons for canceling it. I think the game wasn't going quite the way they hoped and since they N64 was coming out they decided to scrap it. I think that even if the N64 was far off, there's a good chance they might have canceled it anyway.

The game is near finished in a sense that, yes, you can play it from start to finish and all the levels are there (although the prototype ROM we have needed hackers to fix some bugs and make it fully playable). But I think it still had a LOT of work to be done to it. Polishing, tweaking, etc. The game just feels kind of empty. Like they have all the big things implemented, but it was canceled before they could go through and do all the little things. In that sense, I consider it largely unfinished.

Now there's thousands of destroyed copies of Stunt Race FX so we can play this unfinished game. Stunt Race FX wasn't a big seller, there's not that many copies out there to begin with. I know that we put a huge dent in the number of copies left in the world.

The Sd2snes uses an FPGA to emulate certain SNES enhancement chips. It can currently handle several at or near 100%, including the DSP chips and the Cx4 (Mega Man X2 and X3). The creator of Sd2snes is currently working on implementing the Super FX. If he does, I would think it would be possible to take the code for it and create a repro board for Super FX games. Of course, the cost of hardware would make them more expensive to make than a donor cart repro, so people would still destroy SNES carts.
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Tanooki Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:06 pm

CRTGamer: I never have seen that term before, love it as it's an accurate description well enough "game stock investor" anyone into it for the cash from a reseller, predatory reseller, braggart with a wall of rares, etc would get angry over super hard to distinguish cheap copies so normal people can enjoy the game on a physical chip+cart. An actual gamer would not be pissed as long as they knew what they got up front, as like I said, I'd pay someone $50 with a kazoo writer, a board and a cool sticker to make me a Little Samson but the game stock investors can blow me thinking I'll drop $500 on that no matter how good it may be. My cheap ass wouldn't buy a PS4 for more than $300-350 new, not going to piss $500 on a one shot deal ever.

And currently no flash kit at all will run FX chip games, as ziggy said SD2SNES may eventually as it's being attempted. But ultimately it's still a flash device and one that goes for over a couple hundred dollars so that's not practical either when you can wreck Stunt Race FX (for save) or DOOM (without save) which is like a $5-10 cart and maybe 40-50 dollars worth of work as it's crazy wiring up one of those. If someone 1 year, 5 years down the road makes a bootleg SF2 cart with new parts, I'm in.


Ziggy actually Starfox 2 from what has been dug up through investigating and talking to people is basically done. The reason why it feels barren and empty is that the game itself or the hackers who jacked with it made it confused into that situation. NORMAL on Starfox2 is actually easy, and upwards to normal and hard. On 'normal' (easy) 1/2 the stuff the game throws as you isn't present. There's a run down of it all, but you'll have more planets, more random missiles and fighter squadrons, and more battleships too. Not sure it's medium or hard(expert) but there's an entire new part with computer viruses that get launched, they'll take over the defensive platform but you can intercept. If you do not you need to take down parts of the platform that are infected so it will turn away from blasting the surface of your planet. It gets a LOT harder and more risky off the basic starter difficulty which admittedly does make the game look empty and suck.
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Ziggy587
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Re: Booted NES game?

by Ziggy587 Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:27 pm

I've played all the difficulty settings numerous times. It just feels very unpolished.
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My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
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