NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii
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Sarge
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by Sarge Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:55 pm

That is a control option in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, though, and it does a decent enough job of mimicking the dual-stick setup of modern games. The lack of a persistent on-screen reticle is disappointing, though, in Goldeneye.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by isiolia Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:09 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:See, that's just it. If you find a controller less comfortable or more comfortable, that's one thing. But why the need to use the joystick and D-Pad at the same time? What games require that?


Basically none use them simultaneously unless you start talkin' PSP and claw grip for Monster Hunter. Being able to easily jump between the two allows for developers to use the D-Pad for things like swapping weapons though, and that's quite common.

For the N64, it's not just the d-pad, since in the intended analog configuration you also can't readily use the L button.

That's a thing that the Super Pad design tend to remedy. You can jump between either, and can easily use both the L and Z buttons (albeit with middle finger or something for Z).
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by fastbilly1 Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:21 pm

I go in waves with my N64. Like xeogred, and many others, alot of my late 90s was lost to N64 multiplayer. Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye, WCW Revenge, Perfect Dark, Battle Tank Global Assault, Starfox infantry battles, Asteroids 64, Smash Brothers, etc. I replaced countless joysticks over the years and ended up with a huge collection of games, consoles, and controllers.

A couple years ago I bought a bunch of the Hori Minipads to try to get local friends to play more, but it fell flat. I think I am going to swap the SNES I have hooked up for an N64.

Anyone have coop suggestions?

Correct me if I am wrong, but most games used the Z and L buttons for the same thing, if they used L at all.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by Ziggy587 Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:26 pm

isiolia wrote:For the N64, it's not just the d-pad, since in the intended analog configuration you also can't readily use the L button.

That's a thing that the Super Pad design tend to remedy. You can jump between either, and can easily use both the L and Z buttons (albeit with middle finger or something for Z).


That's what I said in my first post though. If you're using the stick, you're NOT using the D-Pad and the Z trigger becomes the L shoulder button. That's what some people don't get about the controller, just ignore the D-Pad and L button. Games were designed for the N64 with the stock controller in mind, you don't need to worry about reaching that L button.

fastbilly1 wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but most games used the Z and L buttons for the same thing, if they used L at all.


Exactly. Most games don't have any functionality mapped to the D-Pad or L button. Out of the games that do, most of them are only part of multiple controller options. The only games I can think of that used L in addition to Z is the Turoks, which used L to open the map. They could have easily have had the map accessed by pressing start and selecting it, but they chose to map it to the otherwise unused L button instead. And thus the "I can't reach the L button" war has raged since.

To Turok, my argument is this: It's only the map. You don't bring it up during the action anyway. No one would have thought anything strange if the map was accessed through the pause menu. But wouldn't that take longer to access than finding a way to hit the L button? Strange that we need to complain about something that's actually easier than the alternative.

So, in my mind, Turok doesn't count. If L was needed to fire missiles, or jump, or some vital function, then it would be a different story. So name one game that you NEED to use L, in addition to Z and the joystick, as a primary button. N64 games weren't designed as such, because they were designed around the N64 controller.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by isiolia Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:59 pm

Sure, but I see that as circular reasoning. The controls present are sufficient to play the games that were designed to be played on them. Naturally.

However, like I said initially, in retrospect that wasn't a great design choice. It has been very common, in the years since, to utilize the d-pad for occasional controls. Logically, had the N64 controller been designed to allow for that, at least some developers would have taken advantage of it.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by Ziggy587 Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:40 pm

isiolia wrote:Logically, had the N64 controller been designed to allow for that, at least some developers would have taken advantage of it.


Accepted. But you could also say, "If the NES controller had more buttons, developers would have taken advantage of it."

My point is that some people bitch about not being able to reach the D-Pad and L button as if you NEED to. Seriously, I've seen people on YouTube demonstrate, "Then when you need to hit the L button you need to reach your hand around like this!" And they demonstrate, as if that was something you were actually required to do when playing the N64.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by fastbilly1 Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:42 pm

I just wish the N64 was adopted by the fighting game community for its six facebuttons and fantastic dpad.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by Ziggy587 Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:53 pm

fastbilly1 wrote:I just wish the N64 was adopted by the fighting game community for its six facebuttons and fantastic dpad.


The MK games are alright on the N64. Usually I hate MK games with 6 face buttons, I find it impossible to use. But because of the A and B button size and placement, it's not too bad on an N64 controller. The MK Trilogy on the N64 also has the benefit of faster load times. Shang Tsung sucks on PS1, Saturn, etc.

But you're right, the controller is pretty much perfect for Street Fighter and clones. With such a strong focus on multiplayer, it's kinda weird that the N64 has such a lack of fighting games.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by fastbilly1 Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:01 pm

When Ack was doing his n64 fighting game kick we played most of them in a night. Sure the N64's sprite game was not as good as the PSX or the Saturn, but it could have had a better offering than Dark Rift and KI Gold.
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Re: How is your N64 gaming going?

by isiolia Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:30 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Accepted. But you could also say, "If the NES controller had more buttons, developers would have taken advantage of it."


I can't think of many (if any) other controllers that are designed around holding them like this or like that with neither position giving full access to the controller's features.
That's what stands out as particularly odd about the N64 controller, and why I'd consider it a flaw. It had the buttons (effectively), you just couldn't reasonably use them.

Otherwise, in general, it had a great overall set of features for when it came out, to include the console itself having four controller ports. Things it didn't have - like dual analog - weren't really a thing yet.
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