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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by AppleQueso Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:43 am

Well I was wrong about my console not exhibiting this. It shows up on my LCD.

I use RGB Scart cables now, and it shows up on there in certain conditions. Normally you can't really see it unless you're looking at the TV from a certain angle, but it's there.
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Zing
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Zing Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:53 am

It is really odd in that it only seems to appear in certain scenes. For example, Mega Man X. There are only 1-2 sections in the entire game where I could see it, and it is so clear that even a child could point it out. It is not visible in any other section even when trying my hardest to see. Same with Yoshi's Island. Earthbound, one of the worst offenders, only has it on the overworld. I don't see it in battle. It's only visible in-game on Super Metroid, but not in the title screen or intro sequence. What a bizarre thing.

Although, it is significantly easier to see when the game is scrolling horizontally. That could explain why it isn't visible on title screens, etc.
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Anapan Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:05 pm

I read through about half of the thread before posting this so I don't know if this has been mentioned before; It's a known issue with the SNES PowerPak from Retrozone. Specifically, the power draw from the PowerPak causes it to appear in systems that would otherwise not display the problem, and different Compact Flash drives affect how prominent it shows. I don't remember the full details of the discussions I read, but changing my CF card made the problem much less visible. I'm guessing that carts with extra chips have similar problems depending on their power draw. Here's a big supposition, but there's a chance replacing or upgrading some large capacitor on the SNES motherboard could lessen or fix the problem.
Dirty Power still can't be ruled out completely however, because adding a super-surge protecting powerbar got rid of a rolling vertical line issue with my Sony WEGA that was previously present when using a dollar-store powerbar initially when setting up my entertainment system. It still shows up when the dish-washer is active...
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Zing Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:12 pm

I think it's been definitively shown that power source and capacitors do not affect this problem. There are several threads with reports on Digital Press as well.

It could have something to do with "extra chips", but it shows up in even the most basic games like Super Mario World.

It may just be inherent in the design of the SNES PPU.
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Ziggy587 Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:39 pm

I'm not sure if we've ruled out dirty power completely. At least, I haven't read the other threads on the matter, but I'm not entirely convinced with the stuff we've tried here.

If certain CF cards cause the problem with the PowerPak, it could be that some CF cards draw more or less power than others. I've read on NESdev, some one was saying that the design of SNES carts in regards to how the power runs is poor. I don't remember the specifics for the reasoning, but I do remember reading that.

Has any one tried recapping a SNES console that clearly shows the vertical line? I think Jam might have recapped a mini, but I can't remember entirely.
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Zing Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:41 pm

I've tried my system at two other houses, on a variety of TVs, with a variety of games. I've tried it with a UPS system, various high end power strips, and bare outlets. The vertical line is always the same in every case.
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Zing Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:25 pm

I received a Super NES s-video cable, so I tested it out. I load up Castlevania IV to see the difference from composite. Looks good… but what's this?

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I've never noticed the line in this game. But there it was. And as an added bonus, there is another vertical line along the right side! Surely, this is just an anomaly of my new cable or the s-video output itself?

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Nope! It's there with composite also, and the right vertical line as well. It's hidden slightly due to the darker colors of composite. I'm not sure why the colors are darker, as its the same input with the same settings on both s-video and composite. I guess the TV's composite circuitry is introducing color errors, or the composite output of the Super NES is different.

I am not sure why I never noticed this line in Castlevania before. Hell, I never noticed the far right vertical line in any game! I booted up Mega Man X, a game where I have only seen the line in select areas and notice the line immediately during the intro level. Never noticed it there before either. I guess I will be seeing a lot more of these lines.

It must have something to do with the background layers, as I don't see the lines on scenes with no background. That would explain why I can see the line on Final Fantasy III intro, despite it being a black background, since it has a "hidden" background layer that is used to move the clouds and also pop out the title logo.

For example, here is Castlevania's sound test screen with no line.

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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Qwerty 9999 Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:36 am

Hi...

I joined the forum for this very discussion. Sorry for my english, it's not my first language.

I have this problem too, and is VERY annoying. I experienced it with my pal snes and mostly with my american snes. I always used my pal snes with the tv cable (not the scart one) and with this setup is very difficult to spot it so is fine.

I live in Europe; I purchased an official gamecube rgb cable only for my american snes, I didn't even have a gamecube! And lemme say that with rgb connection the picture is crystal clear and you can see every single imperfection on it.

Actually I experienced not only the brighter vertical line in the center of the screen, but a number of other small vertical lines here and there. They're mostly noticeable on dark backgrounds with a single color, like for example, if I remember correctly, star world 3 (or 4?) in SMW.

With rgb scart these lines are very noticeable, at least in certain games (for me, SMW and dark levels of DKC/DKC2), with composite scart much less, with tv cable they're almost absent. I guess a better output means this kinda imperfections more noticeable.

:wink:
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by D.D.D. Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:47 am

This topic has been going for a while now with no definitive answer it seems. I don't recall any lines about 20+ years ago but I've noticed it on one of my SFCs so something has got to do with the age of something in the machines or the carts...
I really doubt this is going to be easily fixable so there are a few options: ignore it or play on VC or emus. :roll: Oh well~
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Re: SNES Vertical Line Discussion

by Qwerty 9999 Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:55 am

I'm fine ignoring it, emus are not the same but you all should know this. :wink:
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