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wclem
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Video Back Up Help

by wclem Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:17 am

I ordered some of the "burn on demand" videos from Amazon the other day. I am really concerned about the durability of these disc and would like to make a back up disc to use instead of my originals. They are simply DVD-R discs. I would like to re-burn them to a Blu-Ray disc which would be much more durable and keep me from having to handle the originals.

My question is what software would you suggest for this? I truly know nothing of what programs are good and what are not. Preferably freeware or something on the lower cost spectrum. Not worth spending more more than it would cost to re-order these. I turn to you guys because I trust the community here and everyone has always been incredibly helpful.

Just in case anybody thinks I am looking to pirate things, I do own these and have no intent to make copies of anything I do not own. These are truly for my own use and are paid, in full for. If I wanted to pirate them I would just download them and burn my own copy. I just want to preserve these.
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Ziggy587
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by Ziggy587 Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:52 am

Backing up DVDs is easy. The tricky part will be BDs, though. When you say you want to burn them to BDs, do you mean you want to be able to play them in a BD player? Or you just want to create backup BDs of the images, that you can burn later to DVDs if need be?

If you want to rip the DVDs then burn them to BD and play them in a BD player, that will require some conversion that I can't help you with since DVD and BD are two different formats. If you simply want to backup the DVDs, that's easy.

If the DVD is encrypted, you need a free program called DVD Decrypter (check the Wikipedia page for more info about this program). DVD Decrypter was hit with a cease and desist by Macrovision, so work on it has stopped some time ago. For that reason, this program cannot circumvent newer protections on DVDs. You will need other software, but I can't help you with what.

If the DVD isn't encrypted, you can just rip it with ImgBurn. In either case, you want to rip the DVD to an ISO image with an MDS file (the .mds is similar to a .cue).

Why burn them to BDs? Why not just store them on a HDD, which is always gonna be better than a burned media. You can compress the ISOs with 7-Zip so they take up less space.

edit:
This might also be worth mentioning, there's also a program called DVD Shrink (be sure to read the part about scams). DVD Shrink, like DVD Decrypter, can also circumvent copy protections. But also like DVD Decrypter, work on it has stopped some time ago so it cannot defeat newer protections.

If you want to create 1:1 backups for archival purposes, DVD Shrink isn't any more useful then DVD Decrypter. However, DVD Shrink has some powerful features. As the name implies, you can shrink the size of the image. You can remove unwanted parts of the images, such as trailers, warning screens, bonus/extra material, subtitle languages, etc. You can even rip JUST the movie straight off the DVD, no menus or nothing. On top of that, you can compress the video. The compression that DVD Shrink does is VERY good quality. You can use it to shrink a dual layer DVD to fit on a single layer DVD. You can control the amount of compression and other options.

It's also very useful if you want to shrink a movie or rip out single episodes to put on your phone, PSP, tablet, etc. Rip just the movie/episode from the disc, without any menus or anything else, compress it to your liking, then use other software to convert it to another video format that your device can play.


As for the legality of making personal backups, here's what Wikipedia has to say:

Under United States federal law, making a backup copy of a DVD-Video or an audio CD by a consumer is legal under fair use protection. However, this provision of United States law conflicts with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act prohibition of so-called "circumvention measures" of copy protections.

In the "321" case, Federal District Judge Susan Illston of the Northern District of California, ruled that the backup copies made with software such as DVD Decrypter are legal but that distribution of the software used to make them is illegal.


So, you are fully within your rights to make a personal backup copy. However, it's sort of a catch-22 when it comes to the software you NEED to make the backup.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by CRTGAMER Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:39 pm

wclem wrote:I ordered some of the "burn on demand" videos from Amazon the other day. I am really concerned about the durability of these disc and would like to make a back up disc to use instead of my originals. They are simply DVD-R discs. I would like to re-burn them to a Blu-Ray disc which would be much more durable and keep me from having to handle the originals.
Ziggy587 wrote:If you want to rip the DVDs then burn them to BD and play them in a BD player, that will require some conversion that I can't help you with since DVD and BD are two different formats. If you simply want to backup the DVDs, that's easy.

Why burn them to BDs? Why not just store them on a HDD, which is always gonna be better than a burned media. You can compress the ISOs with 7-Zip so they take up less space.

I hate how retail is sold as DVD-Rs, Bobs Burgers Season 2-4 come to mind. A burned disc is just not as durable as a pressed disc. In addition, the player has to work harder to read a burned copy wearing out the laser eye faster.

The Bluray PRESSED discs are more durable then DVDs due to a harder coating. On the other hand, burning to the tighter and much smaller tracks of the Bluray disc might be less long term read reliable? The conversion as Ziggy mentioned also an issue.

Backing up to hard drive is great as long as it is just a backup. If the hard drive crashes or is crippled with spyware/virus there goes all the backups! Then there is the concern if the compressed ISO is a good copy; only way to be sure is to make yet another DVD-R from it to verify EVERY track. Simplest method is if you have a DVD-R that is hard to replace, just burn another copy, use it for watching (this verifys copy is good at every track) and store the original DVD-R in a climate control separate location.
Last edited by CRTGAMER on Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by Ziggy587 Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:09 pm

CRTGAMER wrote:Backing up to hard drive is great as long as it is just a backup. If the hard drive crashes or is crippled with spyware/virus there goes all the backups! Then there is the concern if the compressed ISO is a good copy; only way to be sure is to make yet another DVD-R from it to verify EVERY track. Simplest method is if you have a DVD-R that is hard to replace, just burn another copy and store in a climate control separate location.


Without falling down the rabbit hole...

If you're concerned enough to be backing up DVDs, et cetera, then you most likely already have a HDD backup solution in place for your PC. If you don't, you should. Windows has a backup solution built into the OS for the last few versions now, and it's easy to set and forget. Additional HDDs are cheap enough. And if you don't have the room for an extra internal HDD (or if you have a laptop) then USB drives are super cheap.

WD 1TB USB drive, $55: https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital- ... 433&sr=1-8

As far as making sure the ISO is a good copy, that's not a problem. Most disc image programs will have a verify function built in. You create an ISO from the DVD, then verify the ISO against the DVD for errors. If you can read a DVD to an ISO without any read errors, then verify it without any errors, you can be confident that it's a good backup.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by wclem Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:17 pm

What I am gonna end up doing is probably ripping the video file and then recording to them to a BD-R. I really want the durability of the Blu-ray disc. In my experience, DVD-R disc scratch way too easy. Wish I could have ordered recorded on BD-R, but that is how they are sold. Would be nice to rip and record but sounds like it is gonna be rip, encode, record.

Any tips on something to just pull the video files off?

Not sure if Amazon burn on demand is even copy protected, would be nice if IMG Burn would to the job. Then I could just make up a new backup whenever one became damaged. In the end my main concern is just preserving my purchase.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by Ziggy587 Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:48 pm

wclem wrote:What I am gonna end up doing is probably ripping the video file and then recording to them to a BD-R. I really want the durability of the Blu-ray disc. In my experience, DVD-R disc scratch way too easy. Wish I could have ordered recorded on BD-R, but that is how they are sold. Would be nice to rip and record but sounds like it is gonna be rip, encode, record.


Writable BDs are more expensive than DVDs, plus the hassle of converting a DVD to a BD in the first place... Just get some quality DVD-Rs and be done. A good brand name DVD-R should last you a long time. At least a decade, if handled good. Hell, even a shitty cheap brand DVD-R is likely to last at least a decade given good conditions.

wclem wrote:Any tips on something to just pull the video files off?


You can use DVD Shrink (maybe DVD Decrypter as well, I haven't checked) to rip a DVD to VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders. Alternatively, you can use 7-Zip to unpack an ISO and get the same results (these folders make up the ISO image). These are the raw DVD files, and this is the first step to converting the DVD format to something else. What to do from here, I don't know. You will need additional software.

wclem wrote:Not sure if Amazon burn on demand is even copy protected, would be nice if IMG Burn would to the job.


I just checked my Neckelodeon Rewind Doug disc, which is DVD-R, and it definitely has copy protection. You will need DVD Decrypter or DVD Shrink to make an ISO from it.

If it helps, DVD Decrypter is ImgBurn's father. When the author of DVD Decrypter was hit with a cease and desist, he turned his software (minus the part that defeats the copy protection) into ImgBurn. So if you're use to using ImgBurn, you should feel right at home with DVD Decrypter. It's like a beta version of ImgBurn.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by CRTGAMER Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:02 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:
wclem wrote:What I am gonna end up doing is probably ripping the video file and then recording to them to a BD-R. I really want the durability of the Blu-ray disc. In my experience, DVD-R disc scratch way too easy. Wish I could have ordered recorded on BD-R, but that is how they are sold. Would be nice to rip and record but sounds like it is gonna be rip, encode, record.
Writable BDs are more expensive than DVDs, plus the hassle of converting a DVD to a BD in the first place... Just get some quality DVD-Rs and be done. A good brand name DVD-R should last you a long time. At least a decade, if handled good. Hell, even a shitty cheap brand DVD-R is likely to last at least a decade given good conditions.

THIS. As my earlier suggestion, watch the backup DVD-R and put the original purchased DVD-R away. Neither disc will scratch if you simply have care putting it back in the case and for portable players not opening the lid before the disc stops. Backing up to DVD-R is much better then just extracting the video since you will get all the Special Features, audio and language options off the original DVD Menu. Of note, most DVDs today are Dual Layer requiring DVD-RDLs, unless you want to split to two discs or compress the video.

@ wclem - What are the videos in question anyways? :?:

Ziggy587 wrote:I just checked my Neckelodeon Rewind Doug disc, which is DVD-R, and it definitely has copy protection. You will need DVD Decrypter or DVD Shrink to make an ISO from it.

Gaah, I thought the Bobs Burgers DVD-Rs were unusual as a new retail title and now read your post about the Doug cartoon. I hope this really stays as the very rare exception and does not be the accepted norm for the consumer encouraging publishers to go cheap. I have yet to buy the vintage Jack Webb D.I. movie because it is a DVD-R.

Anyone remember the DIVX rental throw away DVDs at Circuit City? Hopefully the retail DVD-Rs won't eventually lockout in a similar fashion. Yeah, we can trust Amazon selling DVD-Rs; remember the Kindle "1984" fiasco? :!:

History of Copy Protection - DRM Future of Gaming
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=313544#p313544


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

DIVX was a rental format variation on the DVD player in which a customer would buy a DIVX disc (similar to a DVD) for approximately US$4, which was watchable for up to 48 hours from its initial viewing. After this period, the disc could be viewed by paying a continuation fee to play it for two more days. Viewers who wanted to watch a disc an unlimited number of times could convert the disc to a "DIVX silver" disc for an additional fee. "DIVX gold" discs that could be played an unlimited number of times on any DIVX player were announced at the time of DIVX's introduction, but no DIVX gold titles were ever released.

The format was discontinued on 16 June 1999 because of the costs of introducing the format, as well as its very limited acceptance by the general public. A movement on the Internet was initiated against DIVX, particularly in home theater forums. The DIVX catalog of titles was released primarily in pan and scan format with limited special features, usually only a trailer. This caused many home theater enthusiasts to become concerned that the success of DIVX would significantly diminish the release of films on the DVD format in the films' original aspect ratios and with supplementary material <Today there is Netflix>. Many people in various technology and entertainment communities were afraid that there would be DIVX exclusive releases, and that the then-fledgling DVD format would suffer as a result.

A shame today's public does not care evidenced by the digital download purchases and Retail DVD-Rs! :?
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wclem
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by wclem Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:59 pm

Well of course it is a cartoon! The Fairly Odd Parents, all eight seasons. I dropped about 150 on these and want them to last forever. I have found that the surface of a DVD-R scratches by simply looking at it LOL!!

A while back I burned images of Sega CD games onto DVD-R's. Why you ask, so I could play them using an emulator in an original Xbox. They read and worked fine. I threw the blank DVD in the drive and clicked record. I used IMG burn and it worked fine. I was hoping to do this going from DVD to Blu-Ray. I want the DVD image, just on a Blu-ray. Also would help with dual layer disc.

Blu-Rays have dropped in price to, 20 to 25 will get you a fifty pack.
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by CRTGAMER Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:06 am

wclem wrote:Well of course it is a cartoon! The Fairly Odd Parents, all eight seasons. I dropped about 150 on these and want them to last forever. I have found that the surface of a DVD-R scratches by simply looking at it LOL!!

:shock: The price is shocking considering they are DVD-Rs! I am guessing those are only from Amazon; the retail discs are pressed DVDs? I like it when Timmy gets revenge on the baby sitter! :lol:

Wiki DVD Season List - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... VD_Boxsets
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Re: Video Back Up Help

by isiolia Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:57 pm

CRTGAMER wrote:A shame today's public does not care evidenced by the digital download purchases and Retail DVD-Rs! :?


To be fair, most people probably aren't buying the downloads or the discs, and are just streaming it. It's quite possible that it's only being offered on demand as a concession for folks that can't do that. Not everything has disc releases at all right now - Bojack Horseman for another animated one, as an example.
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